The Swiss system is part of why I don't like tourneys. How you place in a swiss tourney doesn't really show how good you are. I played a Confrontation tourney a while back using the Swiss method. I was in second place and undefeated going into the final round. My opponent was the guy who won it, he was in first. My dice went flat, his dice were hot and I placed 8th in the tourney behind 2 of the 3 people I had beaten in earlier rounds. One of them I had beaten very solidly.

No, it doesn't show how good you are, it shows how well you performed in that tournament. Typically, your strength of schedule is used to break ties in records, but if they have a better record than you, they'll place higher.

No, it doesn't show how good you are, it shows how well you performed in that tournament. Typically, your strength of schedule is used to break ties in records, but if they have a better record than you, they'll place higher.

It doesn't show how well I performed, as I stated, 2 people I beat in previous rounds placed higher than I did. I out performed them but lost to them anyway. If a mediocre player plays against mediocre players,he has a good chance of having a better record than a much stronger player. There is a reason they don't do that in the NCAA tourney, they want the championship to be between the best teams. I have always considered round-robin a much better style. It shows what tourneys are suppose to be about. How good a player you are overall. A good example would be a foot race. If the fastest runners start off running against the fastest runners, they could lose to a guy who cannot run nearly as fast in the swiss style. It is easier to see that in something like a foot race because you have lap times to look at. In wargames, it isn't as obvious.

A friend of mine went to a tourney, take a Skaven army that was over 80% core, well painted and he is very easy to get along with. He placed 8th even though he won all 6 of his battles. I will admit that it wasnt' all because of the swiss system, but it makes my point none the less. Wargame tourneys are not about who is best at the game, they are about how liked you are and how many of your friends are there. I have been burn't before on tourneys, people seem to forget about having fun, it is all about the win, nothing else matters. I had considered changing my mind, the last 2 CAG fantasy tourneys I played in where fun, most of the people weren't stressing about winning or lossing, we just enjoyed playing the game. The only reason I playing another is to support CAG.

Anyway, it is only one mans opinion. I can't change the way things are and as long as people enjoy them, they should play.

Agree with the Crobar. the last 40k truny I was at, I was in second place and lost my last game to and eldrad/seer/wraithlord/avatar 100 point list. I then watch people I had beat place higher. A win should be a win and a loss a loss. Being out ranked by people I've beaten is rough. This is all IMHO.

Im not sure about other tourneys, but when I refer to a "swiss system" Im saying your matches are based on battle points at that time. Your overall scores are not weighted by who you beat and how they finished. Just after round 1, top battle points are matched, after round 2, top points are matched to play, etc. No one plays the same guy 2x and we try to avoid guys from the same club playing, but round 3 and 5 thats hard to do. With the bands, round 3 is like a mini RTT playoff, and round 5 is for all the marbles, so we let the scores do the matching, other than players that previously fought.

How banding works is you submit a list. 9 veteran gamers score it 1-10. Your comp grade is used to determine if you play in band 1, 2, or 3 on day 1. So day 1 is like an RTT with your list vs similarly "powered" lists. There can still be bad match ups, but overall the lists should be fairly equal. You want to bring all goblins or dogs of war? you face other lists that are not maxed out with all the goodies. you want to bring Bloodthirster deamons, you face lots of other deamons, DE, vamps, and various other tough builds from other armies.

On day 2, we drop the bands BUT your comp grade is still working. IF the difference in the comp score (score keeper keeps track of it all) is 2-4pts you will get 3 advantages...pick table side, make enemy deploy 1st unit, and chose to go 1st or 2nd. All things you might win at the start, but you know you will, and that can help vs harder lists. If the comp gap is over 4pts, you get all 3 of those advantages and 3 tourney points. so basically moves you up 1 spot from major loss to minor, or minor to draw, draw to minor win.

We do this for 2 reasons. 1, we dont have a comp score, and try to encourage balanced and softer lists. 2, we want to encourage average or good gamers to bring soft lists and have a shot at winning. We dont penalize you for comp, but we do a lot to give bonuses for softer comp. All this is in advance, so you dont have to bring a tough list and feel like you get hosed. you can bring a soft list and dont feel like you will get trashed at 5 games vs no comp armies.

We also give out 80% of the prizes as door prizes so that the average joe can win something, and show the GT is about fun, not just winning. We have plaques and swords for the best placement guys, but all the fun awards are door prizes. We have a Citadel gaming tabletop, 2 battalions, charge/wound markers, battle bag, several regiments, 4 fantasy tshirts, dice, etc.

We are actually full at 70 players. I will start a waiting list and if anyone cancels, those on the list will be contacted asap.

It is still the same. The tourney win doesn't go to the best players. Part of the game is army composition. Picking the right troops to bring to battle is a big part of strategy, not as big as 40k, but still it is big. What you are doing in your tourney is legalizing cheating. I enjoy building fluff armies sometimes and playing them, but I would never bring one to a tourney. I have fought fluff armies and deliberately dumbed down my army so I wouldn't take advantage of it. We had fun, neither of us was trying to win, just seeing what would happen because we weren't competing for anything. I once played an ogre list that had as many gnoblars as I could legally bring. They lost to an all goblin army before the new codex, but we had a lot of fun. I am not against the idea, but they don't belong in a tourney.


Let me rephrase that, people should be allowed to bring them, but they shouldn't expect to win with them.

It's not cheating... And if you won all your games by a slim margin, and someone else rocked all there games but one and their dice fell flat but scored more victory points then they should win. A win is not just a win, its how you achieved that win. It is like a war, you don't have to win every single battle (although good if ya did) It is how well you did by maximizing their losses and minimizing yours. As odd as it sounds in a campaign or war there are times when you go to lose, because you are needing to fulfill another objective. Protect the retreat of something, test the strength of something, or just buy more time, so the most wins does not necessarily mean that was the best player, So in the case of your confrontation tourney yes you won all but 1 but did you score better than the 2 you beat so maybe you were good but they were better at managing their wins and losses.

And yes I believe especially with Orcs and Goblins, Empire, Warriors of Chaos, and Britonnians, that you can beat an Min Max list with a Fluff list, it's called strategy, It may not be easy but doable especially because of the way fantasy is structured a great tactition can win even if out number points wise or fluff vs. Uber list...

And I think you'll find that the guys running the Buckeye battles will be running a tournament where people are going to be having a ton of fun and honestly you are sounding more right now like one of the guys at a tournament that you wouldn't want to play, You Seem to care about the prizes going to the winners and not to happy about having fun!

I'm a firm believer of fun first and if I lose well I don't because I had fun, If I win well great i have even more toys... Unless your playing in more tournaments and see that they are changing more from what they used to be according to you and a couple of others then i don't know how to change your perception of tourneys other than get out there and play, so give some more touneys a chance!

Although after hearing the way this tuorney will work I think it's pretty fair. My reasoning for disliking battle points is that some armies can crush another utterly, Brettonian knights as one. Some armies rely on prolonging the battle and grinding down, like dwarves. I stil don't think it's right that you can win all of your games in close hard fought battles, and lose out to a person you beat, just because they hit the right scaven unit and it caused the whole army to flee.

First, you seemed tohave glossed over the fact that I stated if people enjoy these kind of things, then people should play them. I spoke to my friend, he told me I was wrong about the tourney. He won all, 5 of his games, with a well painted army and he is easy to get along with, but he placed 11th. The only other player who won all their games placed 8th. The winner won 4 and lost 1. As far as golf goes, in the game, yes their are handycaps, but I have never seen a handycap in a golf tourney. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Lastly, I enjoy fuff armies, I have played them in the past, but when I do, I don't expect to be given a advantage just because I don't want to build list with no thought to its ability to win. I go in expecting to lose but have fun doing it. Since we are degrading to the point were we are saying things like "put the crying aside", this is sliding towards a flame war instead of a good discussion from differing points of view. I apologize to those of you who took it as a personal attack, it wasn't.

Oh, I will admit that calling it legalized cheating was a poor use of words, I didn't think it would cause this much of an uproar. Either way, those of you who are going, good luck and have fun.

We actually have 1 spot open right now, and possibly 2 more due to some upcoming family issues.

We award a sword and plaque for best overall. how that score is calculated is known in advance, so everyone knows what they need to do to score highly. Overall is an overall achievement on all aspects of the hobby and gamesmanship, not just can you make a crazy list and crush all your opponents. If thats your thing, then GW has the events for you...or did til this year. The Indepentent GTs have grown very popular due to players requesting some sort of comp whether player scored, scenario driven, judge scored, band/tiers, or whatever and those events are popping up all over as well as growing in size.

We award a Best General Warhammer and plaque to the person with best overall battle points (ie not including sports, painting, but sports is a tiebreaker).

We award a best painted and a players choice with a plaque. These have nothing to do with battle points.

so players can focus on 1 thing or overall and try to win. If youre a good painter, but not a great player, then generals choice and painting score are great.

@crobar there are also instances every year at GW events as well as Indepentent events where there are scoring errors or just bad scoring design. So its possible you guys just ran into one of those events. Let the organizer know what you thought went wrong, and if he cares about his credibility or popularity of his event, he will listen. Maybe even make changes.

UPDATE: the open spot is gone. Standing by to hear about the other 2 still.

ok, other 2 dropped. Actually have 3 spots. I miscounted 1 of them (8x I think!) and 2 guys dropped out for personal issues. Let me know if Team CAG is heading up!

..c'mon fellas.. anybody heading up? This would be a huge experience.

If lodging is an issue, I can ask anyone at the club if they will host. We even have a Montgomery Inn in Worthington, and Skyline Chili is available in most parts of town. Just none near my house

lodging is the issue is anyone heading up there?

I went last year, had a blast, just not going again till I get more experince so I acutaly stand a chance at doing well(loseing if fine but after you lose for the 100th time it gets real old).