Automatic-hits verses modified-to hit-roll clarification

Sergeant Joined : 06 Jan 2008 Posts : 620

Confirmation from Games Workshop.

If something automatically hits then any modifier that changes the to-hit roll doesn’t have an effect.

Case in point. The Dreadlance with auto hits works normally in a challenge with anything that would cause it to only hit on ‘6’s.

Initiate Joined : 10 Dec 2007 Posts : 234

Jim called gamesworkshop, they told him that you roll for each hit to see if you need a 6, or you auto hit. Interesting that you got a different answer.

I will call tomorrow and see what they tell me.

I called them, they said you dice off each turn to see if the ability works, slight variant on what Jim was told, but far better than ignoring someones special ability in favor of someone elses. Very interesting that you got a completely different answer than the 2 of us Bob.

Do what Steve suggests: Call them 5 times over the course of an hour and 40 minutes, timing each call so it is 20 minutes apart to get a different person every time. Ask the question the same way and keep a tally of the answers, whichever reading the majority agree on, go with it.
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Auto Hits trumps Annoyance.
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Initiate Joined : 10 Dec 2007 Posts : 234

please list a source Marc, just stating it doesn't make it so. When I asked gamesworkshop, I listed several examples. The Brets have a lance that auto hits, VC have an item that allows them to hit on 2+, there is a spell that states you always hit on 2+. The game is about balance, not about favoritism. Another example that is better defined is always goes first. At least here GW had the smarts to explain it better and list what happens if both players have it. The call I made and Jim made backed the rules, a basic rule that has always existed as long as the game has is, " when in doubt, roll a d6, even/odd". If you want to start playing loophole fantasy battle, there is not a perfect game out there.

I'll have to find it but there was a clear FAQ with the Bretonnian Silver Lance of the Blessed vs Annoyance.. stay tuned..
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Initiate Joined : 10 Dec 2007 Posts : 234

I read that, it was from 2005, we have a new set of rules since then. Even in that forum, they couldn't agree, half said dice, the other half said it should always work. One idea had appeal, which was who's ever turn it was, their item worked. The best idea I have heard was Jim's, which is to divide the attacks by 2 if it could be evenly divided and each item works as stated half the time. If it is an odd number of attacks, dice off for the odd one. In the case against the VC lord, he had 6 attacks, so 3 would auto-hit, 3 would hit on 6's. Hitting on 6's is cheesey, but I don't think it is as cheesey as auto-hiyting 6 times and for every wound you get a chance to wound again giving the VC lord a chance to inflict 12 str 7 wounds on the charge. without ever having to roll to hit. The Brets silver lance is powerful, but it cannot be combined with another item to cause that kind of devastation in one round of combat.

Sergeant Joined : 06 Jan 2008 Posts : 620

Sergeant Joined : 06 Jan 2008 Posts : 620

My call list goes;
4/11 (as it is written)
4/16 (single d6 roll for which power works each combat)
4/17 (as it is written)

Which has me beleive that either there is an unknown errata out there or this is a fairness issue. Not playing by the strict writing of the rules is fine. Actually in the front section GW has the golden rule so there is a precedent.

So for fantasy we can lean on that. I think it would be very important that depending on the group or people they agree on the leaning of the game.

Well at least we're seeing action on the Fantasy boards!! Laughing

ok here is how something simlar works(the grey knights and the collar on the hounds) you dice off and on a (dont remeber was like a 4+) the colar doent work but on a (again dont remeber) or less it works, that is how the normaly handle such things(ran across it a bit back on the faqs)

I remember coming across something like this before. Under a heading of immovable vs. unstoppable. The folks at VT played it as if it is auto hit it's an auto hit and cancels out the needing 6's to hit. The auto is infinite the needing 6's is finite...
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Sergeant Joined : 06 Jan 2008 Posts : 620

It's pretty clear that GW isn't going to solve this for us in any convient way. If there isn't an errata for the Wood Elves I don't imagine one for the Vampire Counts any time soon.

So either as a big group or smaller groups we'll just have to remember to set solutions at the time.

It wouldn't hurt for people to bring up any other iffy items, special rules, or curioes before a game. That is if they can think of them.

Truthfully I do like the idea of injecting fairness into the game, even though it works agasint me here. It is just I imagine being rules-lawyered when the case returns to a time I need some fairness myself. Rolling Eyes

The dice off idea doesn't totally repulse me. Only that the 6s-to-hit is a 25 point Spite while the Dreadlance is 60 point Magic Weapon.

look at it this way the lanc bob is talking about costs about 2.5 times as much as the spite dave was useing, it makes perfect since that the lance would out do the spite due to shear point cost if nothing else, also the point of you need 6's(but the auto hitting basicly means you automaticly get the rolls you need so you are rolling the 6's you need automaticly) thats how I would take that, there are very few weapons they cant get around the needing 6's rule and like most things to even that out there needs to be a way(all of which cost more than the spite) so in the end the auto hit even itself out due to the points it costs to have and use
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