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Matt
Supreme Forum Overlord
Joined : 20 Aug 2007
Posts : 3094
Location : Cincinnati, OH
|  Subject: A note on balance  Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:47 pm | |
| A GorkaMorka campaign can quickly become unbalanced. Especially if some players get more games in than other.
There a few ways I have seen this handled in the past. I'll list some of them for you guys to comment on them.
A) We have a GM for the campaign, this can help in a number of ways. The GM can award extra teef and experience for people lagging behind/not getting as many games in. Or they can create scenarios or force scenarios where one mob has an unfair advantage (this mob being the one that is behind).
B) After any given week mobs that did not battle receive teef/experience based upon the average gained by mobs that actually did do battle (this would require people to update this kind of information online).
C) We make sure everyone gets the same number of games in (hard to do I know). If people are behind in games we wait for them to catch up.
D) We only meet on days when everyone can play (even harder than the last).
E) This is something we probably SHOULD do. We rank the mobs based on experience across the board and total worth in teef. The top two ranked mobs always play one another, while the 3rd and 4th always play, 5th and 6th and so on.
F) We break off into many smaller 1v1 campaigns.
G) We do weekend campaigns, playing both saturday and sunday and finish it all up in one weekend (probably not feasible).
Just thought I'd bring such things to everyones attention early so that we can think about it.
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
http://mcelv.blogspot.com/ |
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Angry Bob
Sergeant
Joined : 06 Jan 2008
Posts : 620
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:56 pm | |
| Other than the bonuses for the difference in values I agree that things can get a bit too unbalanced if someone has a great deal more games than someone else and doesn't pull some boyz back.
There is also a GW sanctioned senario where two mobs get to gang up against another. Although that one has a loop hole where the single "bigger" mob can try to bribe one of the others not to actually attack. Although it is a little more complicated than simply a teef payoff. |
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Matt
Supreme Forum Overlord
Joined : 20 Aug 2007
Posts : 3094
Location : Cincinnati, OH
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:34 pm | |
| Yeah, that is another option. Although if i remember the scenario correctly. The payoff for ganging up isn't normally big enough to help the other mobs catch up.
I'm thinking we will need to do something a bit more heavy handed than just a scenario.
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
http://mcelv.blogspot.com/ |
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Angry Bob
Sergeant
Joined : 06 Jan 2008
Posts : 620
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:50 pm | |
| | An elegant solution would be to limit the difference in Mob Ratings of what is brought to any specific game session. 50, 25, or even 10. |
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JMarv
The MathHammer
Joined : 20 Aug 2007
Posts : 728
Location : Evendale, OH
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:09 pm | |
| | Can you lose boys in your mob if you lose battles? Cause I think it would be more fun to knock the top guy down some while helping out the smaller guys a little too, instead of just giving a bunch of free stuff to the bottom players and accelerating the "points" of everyone. (I don't know how Gorkamorka does the points system so I'm guessing, could be teef?) |
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Matt
Supreme Forum Overlord
Joined : 20 Aug 2007
Posts : 3094
Location : Cincinnati, OH
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:34 am | |
| | Quote: | | An elegant solution would be to limit the difference in Mob Ratings of what is brought to any specific game session. 50, 25, or even 10. |
Yeah good call, completely forgot about mob ratings 
| Quote: | | Can you lose boys in your mob if you lose battles? |
You can lose anyone that is put down during a game.
I think limiting the difference in mob rating fixes this problem perfectly though.
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
http://mcelv.blogspot.com/ |
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Angry Bob
Sergeant
Joined : 06 Jan 2008
Posts : 620
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:45 pm | |
| | JMarv wrote: | | Can you lose boys in your mob if you lose battles? |
The game is centered on the mob but each model has his own seperate entry on the roster. So each miniature developes with experience. Whenever a figure goes out of action (taken out in game play) there is a little less than 1/6th chance he will outright die. Depending on what other injury you roll you might just give him the boot.
In Necromunda there was something to be said about developing a bad-ass ganger only to one day have him take a stubber round to the noggin and he henceforth needs to wear an adult diaper all the time.| JMarv wrote: | | (I don't know how Gorkamorka does the points system so I'm guessing, could be teef?) |
You are correct. The weaker mob if they win get's a bonus in teef for their hard work.
Also the weaker mob gets bonus experience points. So you can lose a game and yet your boyz can actually develop faster than the winner, if the weaker mob wins they get even more exp per fighter. |
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Angry Bob
Sergeant
Joined : 06 Jan 2008
Posts : 620
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:53 pm | |
| | Matt wrote: | | A) We have a GM for the campaign, this can help in a number of ways. The GM can award extra teef and experience for people lagging behind/not getting as many games in. Or they can create scenarios or force scenarios where one mob has an unfair advantage (this mob being the one that is behind). |
Thinking on this, the GM idea might have promise.
Special Senarios in general can be very fun.
My wish for the Gorkamorka campaign that didn't fly at WoHaGs was that at some point a Tau vs all the Mobs senario happend with rules like "after the last Fire Warrior dies the Tau player loses," and, "limited reinforcements for all the soon to be exploding greenskin rides."
Since you have the books Matt including a pdf of the Gubbinz book I'm sure you've had some thoughts too. A few ideas are festering in my head on this. Holding back developing anything for group consideration until we actually get some regular games in. |
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Matt
Supreme Forum Overlord
Joined : 20 Aug 2007
Posts : 3094
Location : Cincinnati, OH
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:00 pm | |
| | Quote: | | there is a little less than 1/6th |
It's actually way lower than that, closer to 1/36th chance of a man going away for good.
| Quote: | | Tau vs all the Mobs |
Id' stick to things that exist in the rules we have... making up rules for other kinds of units is always harder than it seems.
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
http://mcelv.blogspot.com/ |
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Angry Bob
Sergeant
Joined : 06 Jan 2008
Posts : 620
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:34 pm | |
| | Matt wrote: | | Quote: | | there is a little less than 1/6th |
It's actually way lower than that, closer to 1/36th chance of a man going away for good. |
On the dice rolled for Serious Injuries since they are rolled as ten's and one's place. With that we get the range from 11 to 66. There is a one in six chance of rolling a "1" in the tens place and a 1 in 36 chance of rolling a "16" ("1" in ten's place, "6" in the one's place). A 11 to 15 is dead and a 16 causes 1D6 more rolls on the table which might result in death. So the death prob goes, "1/6 minus the chance of a '16' roll not then resulting in character death."
I guess I should have stated the math before saying "slightly less than 1/6 chance."
In general with GW games we are dealing with a tree on the rolls where the next result depends on the prior. With Gorkamorka and Necromunda on these tables the dice are independent on each other.
| Matt wrote: | | Quote: | | Tau vs all the Mobs |
Id' stick to things that exist in the rules we have... making up rules for other kinds of units is always harder than it seems. |
Agreed.
What I meant to say just use the Mob rating without dividing by ten for the ork force points. Then create a senario with special rules that will be fun, like the GW design staff claim. |
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Matt
Supreme Forum Overlord
Joined : 20 Aug 2007
Posts : 3094
Location : Cincinnati, OH
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:34 am | |
| Sry I thought only a result of 66 was dead out right. Been a long time (5 or 6 years) since I have looked at the books.
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
http://mcelv.blogspot.com/ |
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Crobar
Initiate
Joined : 10 Dec 2007
Posts : 234
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:49 pm | |
| I would like to see a solution that doesn't reward players for not playing. The people who play regularly, are risking their troops as well as gaining rewards. If you just hand out rewards with no risk, you tempt lazier players to not be as active and not risk their troops.
"I can't play today....mmm, my girlfriend called and I need to hang with her...yeah that's it"
Sorry, I have been in a few campaigns for various systems and am probably a bit jaded  . |
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Matt
Supreme Forum Overlord
Joined : 20 Aug 2007
Posts : 3094
Location : Cincinnati, OH
| | Subject: Re: A note on balance Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:24 pm | |
| True, although another problem arises.
If you play a lot against new guys or people that are not so good with the game, just whooping up on a mob over and over again will cause the better mob to blow up.
_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 22 (The Dark Angels wiped some silly pod marines)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
http://mcelv.blogspot.com/ |
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