A friendly group of people looking to share their Hobby!!!
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 New Tau List

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
AuthorMessage
Makari
Supreme Forum Overlord


Posts : 3251
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 38
Location : Milford, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:11 pm

Being an Ork Player I'm gonna be spacing my ork boyz a bit better for the blast... I still prefer more shots to the one shot maybe... The maybe is higher with more shots. Just me though.
Here JMARV try this on for size...
How many Orks can be hit by the large blast marker for a perfect hit.
Now what are the chances for casualties with that amount and at 1/2 and 1/4 max models. Then what are the chances of casualties against Orks with the Ion Cannon.

And to throw in a wrench lets say orks get a 4+ cover save and in another scenario they get a 6+ armor save...

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/makarithraka
Marc
Fantasy Moderator


Posts : 2428
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Milford

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:57 pm

There are no more partials Sean.
It is a hit if it is a touch, no need to fit under perfectly Wink

Would you take hitting 0-3 or 0-10? Pencils down..
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com/
Makari
Supreme Forum Overlord


Posts : 3251
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 38
Location : Milford, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:01 pm

Ok what I meant is that you can, if your a moron and place all your models in base to base contact, you can feasably get 11 models (thats just knicking some knowing they count as a hit).
If spaced perfectly you will get 1 model. Realistically you'll get about (+/-2) 7 models.

Ion Cannon is 60" Str 7 AP 3 Heavy 3 for 15 pts.

Railgun is 72" Str 10 Ap 1 Heavy 1 or Str 6 Ap 4 Heavy 1 Large Blast for 50pts.

Thats a savings of 35pts. three hammer heads = additional 105pts.

Thats another 11 man fire warrior unit. or 15 Kroots.

Ok but the points aside what are the % for killing a unit of orks from each gun and at each Max min coverage for the blast marker. I'm curious.

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)


Last edited by makari on Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/makarithraka
altahara
Sergeant
Sergeant


Posts : 700
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 34
Location : West Chester

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:23 pm

Quote :
Railgun is 72" Str 10 Ap 1 Heavy 1 or Str 6 Ap 4 Heavy 1 Blast for 50pts.

nope it uses the Large ordinance template... to if spacedperfectly.. you would still get.. well alot.. and if in base to base.. a lot more...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Makari
Supreme Forum Overlord


Posts : 3251
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 38
Location : Milford, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:26 pm

Yes I took that into account I was just writing too fast and left it out.
hence the 11 guys in the circle.

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/makarithraka
Nathan
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1134
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 25
Location : Mason, or Dayton, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:42 pm

The only problem with your theory is table space.

You have an Ork horde and should know that space will be at a premium with 100+ models on the table, so you almost can't perfectly space units to take the minimum # of hits on any large blast.

My 2 cents.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Makari
Supreme Forum Overlord


Posts : 3251
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 38
Location : Milford, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:49 pm

Grrr I know it won't be perfect. I was offering that scenario to try and get a % on the likely hood of a hit and wound vs. the 2 guns.

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/makarithraka
Nathan
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1134
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 25
Location : Mason, or Dayton, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:54 pm

Railgun will probably do better, but we'll let the Mathhammer figure it out.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JMarv
The MathHammer


Posts : 914
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Evendale, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:04 am

Ok, so I ran some average numbers. First for the Ion Cannon since that is quite simple if it is indeed Heavy 3 Ap 3.

I ran for Meq, ork and termy.

Kills are 1.67 marines, 1.67 orks and 0.27 terminators. All in all not that great for an expensive skimmer tank imo.

Now for the submunition I had to make some assumptions. I am assuming 10 man marine squads, 5 man termy squads and at least 20 orks.

Now the other thing is that currently with the blast rules it is always best to spread out your guys to the maximum. This results in a best result of 1+3 partials or 4 under the 5th Ed. rules. But with the scatter coming in 5th, spreading the guys out pretty much guarantees that some of your squad will be hit, whereas if you bunch them, it could drift far enough away to not hurt anyone. So given this, and the fact that you can't usually spread orks out fully because you'd have no room, I assumed an average of 4 marines, 3 termies and 6 orks touched by the blast template.

This gives 1.11 marine kills, 5 ork kills and .417 termy kills. Better for everything but MeQ and only slightly. Add in the extra punch for hitting armor and I would personally always go for the railgun.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JMarv
The MathHammer


Posts : 914
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Evendale, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:11 am

The other issue with the Ion cannon is the expected preponderance of 4+ cover saves likely available.

Adding cover saves makes the submunition even better, as I have a feeling that weight of fire will be more important than AP in many situations in 5th.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Makari
Supreme Forum Overlord


Posts : 3251
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 38
Location : Milford, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:13 pm

Is that taking into account 3 shots vs. 1? And in 5th if i'm not mistaken if its a blast weapon you place the blast marker, check range, then roll scatter dice and a d6, if it hits it stays otherwise move it right? Just checking cause the reason why I don't like the rail gun over the Ion is the 1 shot and done ordeal in 4th.
Very cool thanks for the stats. My question is though is it worth the 35 extra points? or however much it is...

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/makarithraka
JMarv
The MathHammer


Posts : 914
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Evendale, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:40 pm

Yes, that does account for 3 ion cannon shots. 3 shots, two hits, 1.67 wounds 1.67 kills.

In 5th the rumor is place the template, 2d6-BS and scatter die. If the scatter die comes up hit you stick, other wise you will scatter 0-8 inches (BS4) with an average scatter of 3 inches.

In terms of price payback, the analysis would be how much does a hammerhead cost with each gun, then for the ion cannon if you could get 6 turns of 1.67 kills (10 marines) can that even earn it's points back? Probably, but it would have to get shots at marines with no cover saves every turn which is unlikely.

My guess is the railhead will earn it's points back more frequently with increased kills on other types of troops, plus the high likelyhood of exploding a vehicle. 18.5% chance of vehicle destroyed every time you pick up the dice to shoot on AV13
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JTPitt
Sergeant
Sergeant


Posts : 890
Join date : 2007-12-14
Age : 34
Location : Deer Park

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:12 pm

I have a new list that I swapped out for the 3 Railguns, 2 HH to help with troops and one to tank hunt, unless the other HH are needed for it should the 1 go down. I figure with this kind of back up support its gonna be hard as hell to get to my boys if I can form a triangle. lol the FoF-HH tactic lol.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Evil Bob
Sergeant
Sergeant


Posts : 812
Join date : 2008-01-05
Location : Oxford

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:16 am

makari wrote:
Is that taking into account 3 shots vs. 1?
This can play factoring "luck" into shots. Nick takes that targeting thing to get BS4 and still misses with the Pie-Plate attacks at a ratio greater than 1/3.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CJ
Captain
Captain


Posts : 2334
Join date : 2007-08-20
Age : 41
Location : Harrison OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:06 am

John....look into using broadsides....for their cost, their efficiant. The you can buy up that Ionhead. You'll not just get the effect of having TL Rail shots, but you gain the spped the Ion cannon will create as well.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Makari
Supreme Forum Overlord


Posts : 3251
Join date : 2007-11-10
Age : 38
Location : Milford, OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:34 am

Angry Bob wrote:
This can play factoring "luck" into shots. Nick takes that targeting thing to get BS4 and still misses with the Pie-Plate attacks at a ratio greater than 1/3.

In 5th that won't be an issue cause of the blast template just deviating instead of disappearing and auto hit on anything it touches...

CJ wrote:
John....
His name is spelled JON... just FYI.

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://myspace.com/makarithraka
Evil Bob
Sergeant
Sergeant


Posts : 812
Join date : 2008-01-05
Location : Oxford

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:24 pm

makari wrote:
In 5th that won't be an issue cause of the blast template just deviating instead of disappearing and auto hit on anything it touches...
I am calling it right now. Nick WILL roll high or max for most if not all deviations. Because his dice don't roll low, they're just terribly biased.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Evil Bob
Sergeant
Sergeant


Posts : 812
Join date : 2008-01-05
Location : Oxford

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:28 pm

CJ wrote:
Jon....look into using broadsides....for their cost, their efficiant.
With the potential loss of the rear echolon (sp) the range game of the Hammer Head is going to be less. Broadsides are currently mobile-shooters with the correct upgrade, right?

Giving up the Pie-Template is just rough tho'. But I am with CJ's suggestion. Seen pleanty of Broadside rail shots tear my precious armor with that vicous re-roll.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
CJ
Captain
Captain


Posts : 2334
Join date : 2007-08-20
Age : 41
Location : Harrison OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:22 pm

CJ wrote:
John....
His name is spelled JON... just FYI.[/quote]

My bad Mr. Crab Ass...lol
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JTPitt
Sergeant
Sergeant


Posts : 890
Join date : 2007-12-14
Age : 34
Location : Deer Park

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:40 am

Currently for my army composition the broadsides cant move and are useless to me because of that. There is nothing you can give them that would allow them to move and shoot their heavy guns. If there was a way to do that then I would be willing to take them. Thats why I never take XV88s
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Nathan
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1134
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 25
Location : Mason, or Dayton, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:48 am

There is a way, for 10 pts, but they count as slow and purposeful.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Marc
Fantasy Moderator


Posts : 2428
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Milford

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sun Jun 08, 2008 10:58 am

JTPitt wrote:
There is nothing you can give them that would allow them to move and shoot their heavy guns.

erm.. wrong Wink

Read your Codex bud..

EDIT: Nathan beat me to it!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com/
CJ
Captain
Captain


Posts : 2334
Join date : 2007-08-20
Age : 41
Location : Harrison OH

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:24 pm

TL 72" Railgun system....you can hit anywhere on the table.....Smart Missle system pack...48" range...just as damn good. +2 save and if given a couple of shield drones....+4 invuln.


Man your a Newb......And people Mock me????? C'mon dude!!!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Nathan
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1134
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 25
Location : Mason, or Dayton, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:43 pm

Now CJ, who would be so cruel as to mock you? Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JTPitt
Sergeant
Sergeant


Posts : 890
Join date : 2007-12-14
Age : 34
Location : Deer Park

PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:42 pm

im sorry i meant to say there is nothing I would waste points on to do that, since ultimately they are still useless to me. I understand the TL Railguns I just dont like the lack of real mobility.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: New Tau List   Today at 2:48 pm

Back to top Go down
 
New Tau List
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Inquisition list (1750)
» 1000 pt Eldar list
» 1850 Necron List
» Thoughts on a mobile Tau list 1850 points
» tau 1k list tourney list

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
CAG :: Warhammer 40k :: 40k Army Lists and Tactics-
Jump to: