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 Gaming basics and our responsibility

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Affliction
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PostSubject: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:17 am

I was watching Cj and Dan play last weekend and there is one thing I think we should focus on. I understand the game is supposed to be enjoyable and fun but we need to work on teaching a more crisp game play for the newer guys. Although Dan has been around for a while he doesnt have that many games under his belt so missing out on little rules and some slip ups are not a big deal at all. CJ on the other hand now has enough games in that we can start with the rigors of making him play a more clean, crisp game.

I dont want to be labeled like some we have played with in the past that there is a group of ppl you cant stand to play because they either rules lawyer you to death or they dont even know their own army rules and make stuff up, or make a comment they thought they heard from someone else.

I love 40k, although I am not committed to army building and painting like some because I just burn out and dont make it a priority, I want us to have good group of guys to play with.

Things I think we should all work on teaching and being a good examples of: (some of this is elementary, but...)study
1. Know what order the round goes in and when things occur. When to shoot, attack in h-t-h, when certain rolls need to be made or not made
2. Know your own ARMY Rules, dont just guess cause it sound like it was right.
3. PRINT OUT and carry with you your FAQ's there are balance issues these try to help out.
4. Make sure we know how to figure out the "to hit" roll with out a chart.
5. Make sure you can figure out the strength and toughness chart.

*key point here - CJ has photocopies of the summary charts USE THEM if you want one ask him believe it or not under that gruff exterior and bad attitude he is a nice guy <---kidding Cj is one of the nicest guys I have known.

These are just a few things I can think of off the top of my head. Lets not be like all the others. Some of us experienced guys need to make mention if your opponent (even if it is one of the other experienced guys) is not doing the basics. We get so involved in other things we forget the foundation of the game mechanics.

Everyone seems to want to mix it up a little, have a campaign, combat patrol, city fight, etc. These things are well and good but of we cant even play a game with out knowing the basic rules adding more rules or changing a format will build frustration and just add stress to something that is supossed to be stress free.

PLEASE DO NOT flame others or make this into a well one game such and such did this kind of thread. Matt if it does kill it and erase, thx.
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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:28 am

Take it from me....I'm actually reading the rule book page by page. I have missed so much that if I did do this from the beginning....the game would be easier. I like the charts. If anyone is interested in one.....let me know. I'm charging 2 bucks for them....cost of lamination paper basically....or if I owe you money....it's free....lol.....let me win? It's also free.....

LMK serious tho.....I'll make em....you take em......

Thanks for the cough cough Chad, I'll admit it I'm still kind of a Newb....
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:05 am

Good thread Chad, stickied and re-titled.

I agree on all accounts (FAQ's are a big one!). Other good practices would be:

Making sure you have a copy of your army list (at least a some what legible one).

(I'm sure more will come to mind, and I'll edit my post).

Chad/everyone if you don't mind, once we collect some thoughts on this I'll clean it up and leave a single stickied thread.

Again thanks for the post.

(Let's see more of the Eldar Chad!)

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Nathan
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:39 pm

Dang, that's a lot of writing. Oh well, Chad you do have a good point.

CJ: I have read the rulebook page for page several times and I still can't remember it all (but I do remember the important bits), so it may take time to absorb all the info (why is it such a huge book?) and the way you talk man, I would swear that you are not a newb (same with watching the lists that you play).
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:35 pm

The rulebook really doesn't have many pages of rules. The problem is how they describe said rules, they frequently mix rules descriptions with fluff (this is improving big time with recent releases).

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Wayno
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Mon May 26, 2008 8:09 pm

Everyone on this forum needs to read this thread. Good one Chad! study
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Mon May 26, 2008 8:28 pm

re-read and trimmed up a bit to be more relevant to newcomers and such.

I hope people have given this a read through... I'd like to hear more comments on the matter if people have them!

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Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Wolfgirl23
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Mon May 26, 2008 8:47 pm

Since I am new to 40K this is awesome. Thanks a million Chad!
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Mon May 26, 2008 10:43 pm

I agree with Chad. I don't have a problem teaching someone new, but when I play a "veteran" player I dont want to have teach them how to play.

A little thing I have always found helpful with the role to hit chart: BS + D6= 7+. Basically a marine has a BS of 4 so he needs a 3 (4+3=7), a guardsmens BS is 3 so he needs a 4, and Ork has a BS of 2 so he needs a 5. Not a hard thing to remember and you will never get cheated on knowing what a model needs to hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Mon May 26, 2008 11:01 pm

yeah... just subtract the BS from 7.

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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Tue May 27, 2008 8:13 am

You asked for some weigh in and as someone who has some gaming experience (although not 40K) I will pontificate.

Chad wrote:

I dont want to be labeled like some we have played with in the past that there is a group of ppl you cant stand to play because they either rules lawyer you to death or they dont even know their own army rules and make stuff up, or make a comment they thought they heard from someone else.

Rules lawyering kills me. I'm a believer in RAW to a point (problem is I play a lot of games that are translated -sometimes poorly - into English). When that is the case some maturity is required. But for the rule sets that are native language...don't make stuff up that isn't there. I don't care how fluffy it is.

Quote :
I want us to have good group of guys to play with.

AMEN - that is why I enjoyed the confrontation group we played with in the midwest. We'd travel 5 to 8 hours to play in tournaments and "hang" with the players we met because they were so standup...not a bunck of D*cks to play with. You had a good match shook hands then had a beer a lamented the game changing rolls.

I know we get into speed later but there was a guy I played with and we would knock out a 2 hour game 6 turn game in 45 min. We both made quick strategical decisions, knew the rules, knew our armies and didn't spend time arguing over minutia.


Quote :
1. Know what order the round goes in and when things occur. When to shoot, attack in h-t-h, when certain rolls need to be made or not made
right on...this is clear. If you don't know make a little cheat card to remind you. Study it during your opponents turn.

Quote :
2. Know your own ARMY Rules, dont just guess cause it sound like it was right.


3. PRINT OUT and carry with you your FAQ's there are balance issues these try to help out.

I lump these together. You don't have to memorize your army rules but notate the codex with the rules you intend to use in the game. If you are using special ability X or Y for the game. Print those out on you cheat card or just sticky it in you codex/rulebook with PostIT flags.

I cannot begin to count the number of people who'd break out spell cards in Confrontation (trust me there were a ton of spells) and not know how to use them. It slowed down play to an insufferable crawl for those games. I used to try and kill their magician first just to speed up play.


Quote :
4. Make sure we know how to figure out the "to hit" roll with out a chart.
5. Make sure you can figure out the strength and toughness chart.

I think some folks are naturally talented at quick math/stats etc. Some aren't. So figuring out something in your head will seem very easy to some folks and like Chinese to others. I give a little break here.

However, you should be able to "quickly" review your stats and do the calculation using the chart. Or be very prepared (in a tournament at least) to have your opponent shouting them at you. (I try not to be this guy but when you need to get your last turn in....I tend to gravitate that way).



Quote :
Everyone seems to want to mix it up a little, have a campaign, combat patrol, city fight, etc. These things are well and good but of we cant even play a game with out knowing the basic rules adding more rules or changing a format will build frustration and just add stress to something that is supossed to be stress free

Yep...the rules are a foundation for fun play. Too much time spent with a nose in the book really is brutal.

While frustrating to some I really believe in rolling off and worrying about it later. Then spend the time to look it up and review who was right and wrong. I'm probably wrong as often as right in sticky situations. I also know some situations don't have a right or wrong so choosing how to move forward in a 'fair manner' beats arguing about comma placement to death.


Good post. My only note is this is for "general play". If you are a NOOB getting up and running these are goals to SHOOT for as you play more games.
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:16 pm

In all honesty I am still wrapping my mind around the crafting aspect of the game...

I have ran mock games with friends who are also cherry when it comes to the game...

However been observing the games at local shop, when able. I have to agree it is very indepth indeed. A plan of mine is to watch the tourney that qualifiers start May 15 -Thought I would share this idea w/ those who are diving head first as I.

I am told that the winner will recieve a certain point Army of there choosing-That is pretty neat.

3 weeks 2 days and have complete 27 mini's 2 drop pods 1 landspeeder 3 dreadnoughts 2 of which are furoso... bout halfway there the rest still sits in box awaiting it turn on the barbie...

Not saying anything bad about any choices one may make-But I feel you will get out of this game what you put into it. So therefore I refuse to play until my army is complete and painted to the best I can do,I feel I am showing respect to those who play by doing this first.

Dont want to be the guy who builds and plays never finding time to stop and paint it up first...

I would post pictures but I have seen some of your guys work here on forum .It does not look like that however it is table top worthy considering this is my first modeling and painting venture.


Qoute:

I lump these together. You don't have to memorize your army rules but notate the codex with the rules you intend to use in the game. If you are using special ability X or Y for the game. Print those out on you cheat card or just sticky it in you codex/rulebook with PostIT flags.

I cannot begin to count the number of people who'd break out spell cards in Confrontation (trust me there were a ton of spells) and not know how to use them. It slowed down play to an insufferable crawl for those games. I used to try and kill their magician first just to speed up play.

Input:

Office Depo can laminate and spiral your codex for about 4 bucks while you wait this could also speed up gameplay I'm pretty sure. Also less wear and tear on your rule set as well...
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Ronniem11
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Sat May 01, 2010 11:44 am

I agree Chad!

I am one of those you speak of, as was shown in my game with Shawn last night and with you a few months ago, tend to get nervous when I play and seem to get BS and WS confused or forget to to charge shoot certain weapons etc etc... but I do feel that with the new store being closer and my ability to get out more I will become less nervous and more comfortable with my lists and the basic rules.

What I am trying to say is that with experience I will get better with these and I do need to carry the summary cards with me and have them out when I play but do appreciate when I am not sure of the to hit rolls or wound amounts needed that the more experienced players can just blurt out in an attempt to speed up the game...so thanks for that!

Your post here is an inspiration to things I know I need to do and maybe I will be more apt to do so with the hopes of becoming a better opponent that all would be pleased to play!

Thanks all of you for your patience! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Sat May 01, 2010 11:49 am

Ronniem11 wrote:
in my game with Shawn last night
"I've been censored so now i'm going to the dam shop&qu man you even see my name on my Lab coat at work, it's SEAN!!!
OMG only way to spell it properly lol

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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Sat May 01, 2010 5:46 pm

Well as a noobie,
Its great to have a base of players who will take to task the helping of new ppl to learn the game...

I just feel this could become lop sided if there is no throwing in there
the other side of the coin, in regards to the new people respecting that help. By applying themselves as well...

I could be the minority here concerning my approach to 40k, however I have been involved with other games for over 15 years and resting my viewpoint on that...

Just my thoughts,
Its great to take whatever you can concerning learning curves ETC...

But you should give back as well, it makes for a great base of players in my opinion. For the long haul...
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Ronniem11
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PostSubject: Re: Gaming basics and our responsibility   Sun May 02, 2010 10:21 am

makari wrote:
Ronniem11 wrote:
in my game with Shawn last night
"I've been censored so now i'm going to the dam shop&qu man you even see my name on my Lab coat at work, it's SEAN!!!
OMG only way to spell it properly lol

Sorry Seana!

Haha! j/k Sean!
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