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Lost Boyz
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PostSubject: SM List suggestions?   Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:07 pm

My son is going to play in the Yotta league, but needs some help with his 750 list.

He's got plenty to choose from (a Black Reach SM army, plus a couple of Rhinos, a Vindacator, a Predator, plus a couple of other squads, an assault squad, some old termies with chainfists, and one of those 'skimmers'.

He's new, so he's a little cautious - I was thinking of something more 'shooty' than assault heavy.

Any hints from his fellow Space Marines?
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Mendin
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:13 pm

I'm not a SM player, but I play against them, and I will say that Assault Cannons are lovely things to shoot.
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:15 pm

If he's thinking of a shooty army, here are a few pointers:

- Keep his HQ cheap. Many newer players like to trick out their commanders, but this takes valuable points away from da big gunz.

- I've always been a big fan of the plain old Tactical squad - he should have at least two full TacSquads. Because you say he's cautious, I don't think a mechanized-type army would best suit him, but you'll still probably want to have one Rhino around to help your troops grab objectives.

- Vindicators can be downright scary in smaller games, if you can keep them protected. I'd take a Vindicator.

If you'd like me to post a sample list, I can do that too.
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:13 pm

Listen to Chethrok. That guy is a pro. He gives me a run for my money every time.

Tactical squads in rhinos can be pretty nasty if played right. Give them a plasma gun and any heavy weapon besides heavy bolter or multi-melta. Plasma pistols are the icing on the cake if you have the points.

The vindicator is not as safe as the predator because it can't sit back, but it has the potential to do a lot more damage.

The skimmers are awful right now. Even at 750 it will get swatted on turn 1.

Termies are always decent. Give them an assault cannon if you can.

I love assault squads. If you run a gun line like you're talking about, I recommend having one to counter-charge incoming assault specialists before they tear up your shooters.

Quote :
Keep his HQ cheap. Many newer players like to trick out their commanders, but this takes valuable points away from da big gunz.

So true. Especially with younger kids. A jump pack chaplain is great.

By all means, write up a list. We'd love to look at it.
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Lost Boyz
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:56 pm

A list would be great! I might set him up with a couple lists so he can try out some different looks. I know he likes the tanks! I think all he has for HQ is the Black Reach Captain.
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:50 am

Here's a decent gun line army that's simple and easy to play:

750 SM List

Captain - 80
Plasma pistol, power weapon, melta bombs

Tactical Squad 185
9 Space Marines:
Veteran Sergeant with plasma pistol, power weapon
Plasma gun
Heavy bolter

Rhino 58
Smoke launchers, extra armor

Tactical Squad 185
10 Space Marines:
Veteran Sergeant with bolt pistol, close combat weapon
Plasma gun
Missile launcher

Tactical Squad 115
6 Space Marines:
Plasma gun
Lascannon

Predator 110
Autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons

Total: 748

- The squad in the rhino is joined by the Captain and moves to counter the enemy's most powerful squad. They jump out and unleash 4 plasma shots and 12 bolter shots, then pile back in and head for the next squad or the objective. Alternatively, against fast assaulty armies like Nids and Orks, they can join the rest of the gun line and fire away. Protecting the Rhino is the most vital part to playing these guys.
- The other big tactical squad is the anchor - they hold an objective or take a position where they can support the rest of the army.
- The small tactical squad should be stuck somewhere (preferably in cover) where they have LOS to the majority of the battlefield and can snipe at enemy targets.
- The Predator can chew through enemy Troops units - it probably won't make its points back if you're fighting power armored foes, but that's what all the plasma is for!
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:58 am

Chethrok,

While a good starting point, this list appears to be made from the old codex. Some of these options will change in points cost (and legality) in about three weeks. For instance, you won't be able to field a 6 man squad with lascannon and plasma gun, and it will suddenly be more cost effective to bring along flamers, heavy bolters and missile launchers.

I'd be careful about modelling too many guys as you may want them armed differently come October 4th and the new marine codex.
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:33 am

That's true. Is the Yotta league using the new Codex? More importantly, only 3 weeks till it's out? Man, time's flown by since I've started school. Trippy.

JMarv is totally right. I'm not up to date on all of the SM rumors, so I can't give an expert opinion on an army list. Give me a week or two after I get my grubby hands on the Codex and I'll have all the min/maxing figured out.
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:14 am

I can't really comment on the HQ choices at present, but at 750 pts I know you'll definitely want to keep it cheap. No shiny 250pt HQ toys for you yet.

To get a heavy or special weapon the tac squads have to be 10 men strong. Also at this point flamers and missile launchers/multi-meltas/heavy bolters will be given out free (well limit one per customer) for 165 pts I believe?

So at low points games I would definitely see at least 1, probably 2 10 man squads with flamer + heavy weapon of choice. I would recommend one heavy bolter and 1 missile launcher or 2 missile launchers. Unless some jerk is rolling a landraider at 750pts, in which case you may need to take the multi-melta to ruin his day.
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:56 am

Actually the Book is released this saturday with the spearhead!!!

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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:07 pm

Captain's price goes up a bit in 5th edition codex due to a built-in Iron Halo. Also, here's a variant on Chethrok's list, made using the new codex. (No Vindicator, but you'll end up with six 5-man squads each with a heavy weapon)


Captain - 135
Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Meltabomb
(Alternatively, Storm Bolter, Power Fist, Meltabomb)

10 Man Tactical Squad = 185
Plasma Gun
Heavy Bolter
Sergeant (Bolter or Bolt Pistol + CCW), Meltabomb

Rhino w/Extra Armour, Smoke, Searchlight = 50

10 Man Tac Squad = 185
Sergeant (Bolter or Bolt Pistol + CCW), Meltabomb
Plasma Gun
Missile Launcher

10 Man Tac Squad 195
Plasma Gun
Lascannon
Sergeant (Bolter or Bolt Pistol + CCW), Meltabomb
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:05 am

I would drop the one heavy bolter and take a missile launcher (which is free) or another plasma gun if you have the points.

I know they're popular, but I really think the heavy bolter is garbage.
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:53 am

You take that back!!!!

But no really, I think the heavy bolter aint that bad.
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Thu Sep 18, 2008 4:10 pm

They are okay against horde armies. But against heavy infantry they do nothing. They will kill 1 guy on average.

You can kill 1 guy even more effectively with a krak missile, and have the option to fire frags against hordes, which generally perform as well as the bolter. It's better than nothing, but it just doesn't do anything the missile launcher can't do better and the launcher will take out vehicles too.
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Lost Boyz
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Thu Sep 18, 2008 5:41 pm

If missiles are great, what about a devastator squad with 3 missiles? too expensive?

Are scouts worthwhile? Maybe on a larger list?
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:30 am

A devastator squad in a 750 list is great. Personally, I never leave home without one, but I'm not sure how wise that is. The key with devastator squads is to make them large enough that you have some bolter-wielding meat shields to soak up fire for the heavy weapons. I usually run devastator squads of 8, with 2 lascannons and 2 missile launchers as a great anti-tank unit. A squad of 6 with 3 missile launchers would be much less expensive, and could perform well against anything but AV14.

As for scouts ... I've never been a fan of using them unless I have to. There are several effective uses for scouts, but I'm just not sure if they're worth it in a 750 list.
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:40 am

Scouts are good at killing monsterous creatures, but I wouldn't take them for much else.
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:41 pm

I might consider a big squad with bolters and a heavy bolter (or missile launcher Cool to plunk down on an objective in cover. They're only a little less survivable than normal marines as long as you have them in cover, and they're cheaper plus they infiltrate.

But I think Scouts are being reduced to WS and BS 3 in the new Codex (maybe?) and if so, they'll become even more worthless in my mind without a significant downgrade in points cost.
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Preter
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PostSubject: Re: SM List suggestions?   Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:11 am

the 3 ws and bs in the new codex hurts them slightly. i think scouts are only worth taking with sniper rifles. a ten man squad of 9 rifles and one rocket will kill monsters easily. - Stop using my account mike
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