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 KFF and Vehicles

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Mendin
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PostSubject: KFF and Vehicles   Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:00 pm

KFF rules: "Gives all units within 6" a 5+ cover save. Vehicles count as obscured"

Vehicle Obscured rules: "If a rule or wargear gives a vehicle the ability to be obscured while in the open, it gets a 4+ cover save unless specified otherwise in the Codex"


So a vehicle given Obscurity by a KFF only gets a 5+ cover, yes? I've argued this with people on Vassal today.
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:51 pm

I've always read that as a 4+, but I guess it is open to interpretation, since there are different amounts of cover save.

On 'the Waaugh' (the Ork site) it is always discussed as a 4+ vehicle save, and 5+ for troop units.
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:03 pm

Have to use your basic grammar rules....

Codex:Orks (pg.34) - A kustom force field gives all units within 6" of the Mek a cover save of 5+. Vehicles within 6" are treated as being obscured targets.

There is a period between the first and second parts, so what is important to you is just...

"Vehicles within 6" are treated as being obscured targets". That means you would follow the rule for obscured targets in the rulebook (pg.62). Now with all that being said...

40K Rulebook (pg.62) - If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing or penetrating hit, it may make a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a wound (for example, a save of 5+ for a hedge, 4+ for a building, 3+ for a fortification, and so on)

So after all that, a vehicle would get a 5+ cover save the same as a non-vehicle unit would do with a KFF.

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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:30 pm

Here is the quote from the Waaugh FAQ site I was referrng to:



Q. Does the kustom force field give vehicles a 4+ or a 5+ cover save? Does a vehicle or unit need to be completely within the 6" of the model bearing the Kustom Force Field to benefit from it?

A. Page 62 of the rulebook states "If a special rule or piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even if in the open, this is a 4+ cover save, unless specified otherwise in the codex." We think that this applies to equipment such as the kustom force field (and, indeed, may have been written with the kustom force field in mind); the kustom force field rules state that it "gives all units within 6" of the Mek a 5+ cover save. Vehicles within 6" are treated as being obscured targets" (codex at page 34). The obscured rule applies, so the kustom force field gives a 5+ save to non-vehicles and a 4+ save to vehicles within 6". This is supported by Phil Kelly's comments in the Orks vs Beakies battle report in WD345, in which he refers to his Big Mek's kustom force field "effectively giving the Trukks a 4+ save from Matt's gun line".
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:40 am

I looked through the GW: FAQ for Orks and found nothing contrary to what I said above. Could you please link the site you got that quote from so I can research it more.

Thanks Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:34 am

I've always played it as a 4+ for the above reason. But I can see the 5+ save. The fact that a WD battle report has it at 4+ and the rule book's "If a special rule or piece of wargear confers to a vehicle the ability of being obscured even if in the open, this is a 4+ cover save, unless specified otherwise in the codex." IMHO, the Shoota boy nob Power Klaw debacle was cleared up by a WD battle report as well, if anybody remembers that. I play it as a 4+.
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:28 pm

An aside on Forum etiquette.

I'd appreciate if folks can try and use the full name of special abilities or other items they will be using in these questions.

Not all of us have access to all the codex or have played against all the abilities.

ie. Defining KFF upfront would be helpful to us NooBs
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:31 pm

Everything I have read on Ork tactica online says 4+, but there are LOTS of 'undecided-unclear' rules. Guess it's best to check with your opponent first. (next let's discuss deffrollas and tank shock -- YIKES!!)

I've only used my KFF once, I used it as a 4+. My Kans were destroyed in assault anyway, but at least they got there - Grotzookas blazing.

Oh, Chad, here's that link: http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=35149
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:34 pm

oops, sorry John: Custom Force Field (or the orky Kustom Force Field) KFF.

It can be carried by a Big Mek. They can carry another weapon (mine has a burna). They can ride in vehilces with it.
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:37 pm

OK after a good nights sleep and a re-reading of the posts and rules the way I see it is you would get a 4+ save from a KFF. For some reason I looked over or just plain missed the comment you guys were talking about in the rulebook on page 62 talking about wargear. There is nothing in the Codex:Orks stating anything for a vehicle cover save other than to obscure it.

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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:47 pm

Then 'All units within 6"' is actually 'All non-vehicle units within 6"'? I find that silly.
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:12 am

Mendin,

They actually go out of their way to say ork units, and then the following sentence says ork vehicles.
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PostSubject: Re: KFF and Vehicles   Today at 1:48 am

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