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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:42 am

This is an observation I have made recently.

Grey Knights suck. I'm not crying about it. I'm honestly having a lot of fun playing them in the 750 league at Yottaquest. It is more of a challenge because they are so lame.

They look so awesome on paper. You look at the codex and it says that Grey Knights have lots of awesome* special rules and killer* wargear. But then when you actually play them a few times you start to notice that *.

It turns out the * means useless.

Look at it: Shrouding? 3d6x3 is 27 on average. Enemies more than 27" away aren't likely to shoot at you. How useful is that really?

All of their other rules only affect daemons and psychic powers. I don't remember the last time I even saw either of those things.

And nemesis weapons. Everybody freaks about them being STR 6. They leave out the part where you only get 2 attacks max. If they get the charge 5 Grey Knights will beat 5 regular Assault Marines by 1 according to odds. If the Assault Marines charge, they tie. So Grey Knights are just a little bit better than assault marines. Berserkers or Vet marines can easily beat them. And anything better than that (genestealers, banshees) will tear them to shreds.

No rhinos. Can't have em. You want a transport? You better have the points for a land raider.

Heavy weapons? Nah. Grey Knights don't need those.

But they're fearless! Meh. Regular marines can run when bad things are killing them. ATSKS(some)F is better.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:34 am

They can pants IG, Necrons, and sometimes tau pretty easy. And they do a number on drop pod armies. Psycannans own Eldar avatars. And you can have so many landraiders it's sick. Santuary in a land raider makes you Litaraly unbeatble to daemons. Butas it stands now Pure GK are best in campains, Apoc, and friendly games. GK landraider spam has been placing good in turnies though. They are quite a challenge, but I wouldn't go as far as tosay they suck.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:12 am

Let's see....I've won against Nids, Eldar Mecha, Black Templars, and Dark Angels. Then there was this massacre with Tau forces. He was pretty heavy in the Railgun Dpt. too.

750 the Knights will suck. Specially their point costs. If your not playing 1750 or better with this army, then forget it. I agree with you. Jon is having success with his Inquisitor army and I run 10 Termies in my all GK army. You just have to be selective and open minded how you play them. Shrouding can work too. You may have the other person you are playing be a shitty roller. Leat that's been my luck. And the Psycannon can be anyone's best friend.

Your just used to tearing up people with your BA.......
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:04 am

I agree with CJ that at a lower point game they will be hard to take. At higher points they do much better. As far as sucking I am not so sure about that. They have done wonders for me no matter who I am up against. They are resilient and they are worth the cost of points for most of them.

Sure we don't have all the gadgets that everyone else has but GK's are a good army just not an out numbering army.

CJ,
I play a full GK army the only non GK items in my list is the Inquisitor and the Vindicare.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:53 am

Jon....and that's what you call an Inquisitor army....LOL.

I play pure.....No assains.......no Inquisitors. Different styles.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 12:37 pm

I've seen them be pretty good water style, having the ability to always move and shoot to full effectiveness is nothing to be sneered at.

I'm still with you though Mike, and not sure anyone can realistically argue otherwise... GreyKnights are in DIRE need of a redo, easily one of the poorest armies in the game right now.

Talking pure GK anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:25 pm

I'm hoping the redo of the armies are not dead. Serious need to be redone.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:24 pm

I wouldn't mind seeing them redo the GK but honestly if they go outside of their style it would be wrong. Of course they are geared towards daemons that's what they were created to go after.

I just don't want them destroying the way GK's are. To much revamp can easily destroy the army. Right now they don't have the same things everyone else does. But if you take away their daemon killing abilities and try to balance them out to match everyone else it would hurt them.

What they need to do is give them some more items but not to many more to be able to handle everyone else. Right now you have people whining that they are cheese in some aspects. Well as it stands they are not a power house nor do I believe they ever will be. Given that little piece they aren't a completely horrible army to play.

By far they are not the weakest either. The weakest to play in the current 5th ed setup is Tau. They can at best only hope for a Tie or a just squeezing out a win. So no GK's or Daemonhunters aren't that weak.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:35 pm

Hmmm, for competitive mission based play I'd put pure GK below Tau.

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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:08 pm

Same here. Agree with Mat on that. If they do anyhting, they'll make them a lil tougher like they did with the other SM's. They were at one time tlaking about bring them out with a Revamp with Xeno's and Sisters in one big book. Anyone know if there are rumors of this still??
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:49 pm

I'm sure Imperial Guard, Space Wolves, Necrons, Dark Eldar, Tyranids. Blood Angels/Black Templar would come before Codex: =I=
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:52 pm

It's been said they won't in up in one big book. Also The developers have said that they went a little to hevy on the Inquisitor side of things (the Inquisitor game was being launched right after)They are slated to be after every other codex but nids and chaos so i'd guess late 2010 early 2011. What hurts GK the most is the LOW model count. I can usually drown them in bodies.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:04 am

It's true that GK land raider spam is an okay list. Still, there are 2 armies I can think of that do it better, and you might as well play one of those if you have a hard on for giant tanks with twin-lascannons.

At 750 the land raider spam isn't exactly an option, but that hasn't stopped me from trying...
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:54 am

While the Tau have some good guns the GK would be able to tear most the army apart. Then drop a squad of termies any where near their board edge and they will fall apart.
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PostSubject: Re: Grey Knights suck.   Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:56 am

My favorite thing to do is drop my HQ units on the board come round 3 or 4 deep strike and appears my HQ and 10 termie Ret. The looks on some of the faces...LOL
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