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 best fast attack choices for space marines

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brettfncoleman
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PostSubject: best fast attack choices for space marines   Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:18 pm

ok i need to buy something for a fast attack option in my marine army and i was wondering what would be the best choice, so far im not leaning any way into a specific style of combat im kinda jsut trying to build a standard army and i elites troops and hq choices but no fast attack, any help would be greatly apprecdiated
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Bojesphob
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:26 pm

Well, if you don't care too much about style or anything, I guess the main consideration would be how many points do you have available? If you have enough for a large squad of Assault Marines, I always seem to have fits with them. They are cheap enough that you can get a number of them as compared to bikes or the skimmers (can't recall their name at the moment). But, they also are only really good in CC, so they aren't really for shooting. If you want something that shoots more than a bolt pistol, go for the bikes or the skimmers....

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brettfncoleman
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:43 pm

how many marines would i need to get a decent sized squad? also would it be worth it to buy the jump pack chaplain to because that guy looks sweet
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:57 pm

A full -strength squad of 10 Assault Marines with a special weapon of some sort (power weapon, power fist), led by a jump pack Chaplain can do some serious damage on the charge. When i pick Fast Attack choices, Assault Marines are usually the first to go in the list, because of their relative inexpensiveness per model. More is better in this case; if you're wondering how many to buy, I'd suggest the full squad of 10.

A Land Speeder with multi-melta is also a favorite of mine - it's a cheap, mobile tank-hunting unit that can deep strike or move flat out to increase its survivability.

If you have a lot of Deep Striking units, or if Deep Striking plays a crucial role in your battle plan, I'd suggest taking a look at Scout Bikers. They're not nearly as effective by themselves as Assault Marines, but taking a locator beacon can guarantee you a safe and comfortable landing for your Deep Strikers. Turbo boost in the first turn so your troops come in right where you want them to on Turn 2. I haven't tried these guys out yet, but I'm considering picking them up.
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:06 am

ATTACK BIKES WITH MULTI-MELTAS

Mobile meltas is the name of the game.

Regular bikes are crap. Unless you just really like the way they look or you are using them to deepstrike something, don't take them.

Assault marines are good too if you already have a ton of devastators or tanks to do the big damage. They need at least 1 power weapon to be effective.
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altahara
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:37 am

If you are using them to just deep strike something

SCOUT BIKES!!! hehe they infuiltrate AND get the scout move.. sheesh why does noone remember these little trinkets..?
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:56 am

I've used the scout nikes in about 5 games. From 750 to 1750.

positives
astartes grenade launchers
teleprt homer
cluster mines
speed

Negatives
BS 3
infitrate and scout move....if they get too far in front of the rest of your army they are toast.

if you put them in reserve and outflank they can bring some firepower where you need but run the risk of being completely useless.

overall they are kinda a dud IMO but maybe I haven't found the best way to use them yet.
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brettfncoleman
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:15 pm

well what about cost wise ands i mean like money not points lol im kinda looking for wahtever is going to hurt me least in my wallet lol but everyone seems to be saying either scout bikers or assault marines so im kinda stuck between thos two, id try them out on vassal but i ahvent quite figured out how to get that to work lol
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:16 pm

If you have a choice, Assault Marines over Scout Bikes any day. Assault Marines and Land Speeders/Attack Bikes with meltas are the way to go.
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:48 pm

This whole thread about assault marines and attack bikes and meltas is making me feel a little randy.

1 Attack bike is generally $25.

A box of 5 Assault Marines is $25.

1 bike is $15.

Maybe that is more what you were looking for. Note: the regular bikes will cost you more (as you need at least 3 to be worthwhile), AND are the worst choice gameplaywise.
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:01 am

In terms of points vs. $, those Assault Marines will give you the most "bang for your buck." A full squad of Assault Marines is $50, and comes in at about 200-250pts. Two Attack Bikes, the same $50, come to 120pts with multi-meltas.
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:23 am

Incorrect, Sir.

Attack bikes with multi-meltas are now 50 pts in the new marine codex.

It's so sexy.
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brettfncoleman
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Sat Jan 17, 2009 4:04 pm

well taxes are coming up so maybe ill get one with the money i have now, and then get the other with what i get back that way i have both which sounds....sexy... Cool
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:31 am

Mike Leon wrote:
Incorrect, Sir.

Attack bikes with multi-meltas are now 50 pts in the new marine codex.

It's so sexy.

Oh snap, you're right. Embarassed I stand corrected.
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Martel732
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PostSubject: Attack bikes vs land speeders   Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:50 am

I actually find that I prefer land speeders with multimeltas vs bikes with multimeltas. Or at least I did back in 3rd. I haven't played many 5th games and I skipped 4th. The heavy bolter attack bike has better synergy with the bolters already on the bike. Perhaps it is more important to have more multimeltas now? However, with the new prevalence of cover, I am leaning heavily on multi-shot and template weapons to cause many wounds.
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:34 pm

Martel732 wrote:
I actually find that I prefer land speeders with multimeltas vs bikes with multimeltas. Or at least I did back in 3rd. I haven't played many 5th games and I skipped 4th. The heavy bolter attack bike has better synergy with the bolters already on the bike. Perhaps it is more important to have more multimeltas now? However, with the new prevalence of cover, I am leaning heavily on multi-shot and template weapons to cause many wounds.

Personally, I think each has its advantages and disadvantages, but the attack bike definitely holds its own against the land speeder for a few reasons. First, they no longer have an equal points cost - the land speeder with multi-melta is 10 points more than the attack bike now. Second, the attack bike is slightly more survivable when it decides to turbo boost (3+ cover save and 2 wounds means the enemy has to divert at least as much firepower as it would take to down the speeder). On the other hand, the speeder can deep strike (which I've used to get the rear armor on some tanks), which pretty much ensures it will get at least one shot off. Yeah, if you use an attack bike w/ multi-melta, you're losing out on a twin-linked bolter, but there are bigger inefficiencies to worry about IMO.
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Martel732
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PostSubject: Good points   Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:07 pm

I play blood angels; I'm not sure if this changes the analysis. I haven't looked too hard at the fast attack stuff. I just really like to make weapons uniform throughout a given squad in terms of function. IE having a lascannon mixed into and anti-infantry squad seems silly. Tau, of course, are the exception, if target locks are involved.
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Mike Leon
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:22 pm

I play an army that has jump marines as troop choices (blood angels), which means I can run 9 attack bikes with multi-meltas if I want and still have assault marines. They can pop tanks. They can mow down infantry. Then I can assault with the bikes to tie up cc specialists I don't want fighting my jump marines or just add more bodies to combats in progress. So I run a lot of bikes.

I have run 1 speeder in the past. I suspect that whole units of speeders, say 6-9 of them, would perform a little better than bikes for the purpose of tank hunting. For anti-infantry purposes, speeders are just not as good.

Durability is different depending on how you divide the units. The bikes tend to be more consistant. Three bikes will always take 3-6 shots to kill from anything and they have an easy time getting a 4+ cover save, whereas the speeders involve a dice roll and all kinds of crazy things can happen and they rarely get a cover save. That may make the speeders sound better, but you would be surprised how knowing things like that beforehand makes huge tactical differences.

Sadly, the biggest factor for me is that I don't want to buy, assemble and paint 6 land speeders - especially when they are, at best, equal to attack bikes.
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methoderik
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:25 am

Attack bikes with Multi-melta's are solid.

One that has not been mentioned:

Landspeeder with 2 Heavy bolters.

Cheap, Good range, and 6 str 5 shots. Not to bad IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: best fast attack choices for space marines   Today at 9:12 pm

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