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 Necron We'll be back rule

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PostSubject: Necron We'll be back rule   Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:15 pm

Quick question.

You are allowed to make We'll be back rolls as long as a unit of the same type is on the board.

I've bee reading and something in the International FAQ made me think that type means.... Infantry, Jet Bike, Monsterous creature...etc. Not Pariahs and Pariahs

So for A heavy destroyer that takes and unsaved wound... they could still make a We'll be back roll if there is a unit of the same type, (say regular destroyers) within 6 inches or a just on the table and a tomb spyder within 12 inches since they are the same "type".

Any opinions on this?

My follow up question is that a model that makes a WBB roll must join the closest unit of that type. In the above example I believe the Heavy Destroyer joins the unit of Destroyers creating a "mixed" unit.

Again.. opinions?
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:27 pm

It is in fact based on Type Infantry, bike, skimmer...

Also isn't the WBB rule based on a range from that same type and not just on the board, thats not to say there isn't something out there that doesn't do that. i don't have the Necron Codex but that is how I recall it working, and how it has been explained to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:40 am

The Tomb spyder allows for WBB rolls if it is with 12 inches of a unit and there is the same type of unit still on the board.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:25 am

WBB rolls are made if there is a unit of the same type within 6 inches or if there is a tomb spider within 12 inches and a unit of the same type is any where on the table. That is only if the target unit is completly destroyed (but not from a sweeping advance) and then those models must join the nearest unit of their type, no mixed units. That only applies if the attacks were not power weapon attacks or cause instant death in which case a res. orb must be within 6 inches of the affected unit. So if a unit of Immortals are destroyed and there are no other Immortals left on the board then no WBB rolls can be made, it is unit type specific not just infantry, jet bike ect. John hvy destroyers and regular destroyers are not the same and cannot be mixed together. One is a heavy choice and the other is fast choice and even if the were both heavies or fast choices they are different unit types.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:26 am

Warmonger wrote:
WBB rolls are made if there is a unit of the same type within 6 inches or if there is a tomb spider within 12 inches and a unit of the same type is any where on the table.
Cool

Quote :
That is only if the target unit is completly destroyed (but not from a sweeping advance) and then those models must join the nearest unit of their type, no mixed units.
What do you mean here? That Tomb Spyders only work if a unit is completely destroyed? Or they join the nearest unit if the unit is completely destroyed (ie all laying down waiting on WBB rolls)?

Can you point to where it states no mixed units?



Quote :
That only applies if the attacks were not power weapon attacks or cause instant death in which case a res. orb must be within 6 inches of the affected unit.

Yep.

Quote :

So if a unit of Immortals are destroyed and there are no other Immortals left on the board then no WBB rolls can be made, it is unit type specific not just infantry, jet bike ect. John hvy destroyers and regular destroyers are not the same and cannot be mixed together. One is a heavy choice and the other is fast choice and even if the were both heavies or fast choices they are different unit types.

I don't believe so. The codex says "Type". It doesn't specify Unit type and I expected that to be clarified in the FAQ.

I know I'm a Noob and hence why I'm asking but the international FAQ goes to declare types. Types as Infantry... Jet Bikes... Monstrous Creatures. It does not further break them down to Elite/Heavy/Fast Attack/Troops.

I belive (maybe erroneously) the distinction is needed necessary except to determine when a unit is eligible for WBB rolls to determine if a like Type were near by. I don't have my Codex or rule book with but I belive up front there is a 2 page section on "Types" that I was reading last night. I don't believe the codex says "unit type" but just of the same "type".

Thanks for the comprehensive reply. Just trying to get a good grip on what can/cannot be done with the Necrons.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:55 am

I'm at work right now and don't have the the codex or FAQ's with me but I have played Necrons for several years and it has always been same unit type which doesn't allow for mixed units or different types of units giving WBB rolls. I will double check when I get home. Of course the International FAQ might be worded different but isn't really official GW rules either. As far as the tomb spider goes yes it only applies if the unit is completely destroyed because if there is any models from the unit still alive then the tomb spider isn't needed because the unit has surviving models to draw their WBB rolls from.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:21 pm

Ok sorry John meant to get to this sooner but hey....

Yeah the INAT clarifies Unit types:
All units are Infantry except the following -
Monolith (Vehicle)
Tomb Spyder and C'Tan (Monstrous Creature)
Necron Lord with Destroyer Body (Jetbike)
Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers (Jetbikes)

Other things that came up in our game:
Rending - allows no WBB (Necron FAQ)
Sweeping Advance - Lots of reading to get this one strait, but as the unit is "removed from play" there is no WBB rolls. Also previously downed models that were part of the squad are removed also since they are still part of the squad per the FAQ (...if the are, lay them down and move them with the unit<--talking about Falling Back<---further clarified by the INAT)

And as far as wiping out a squad the only thing that would keep them from coming back would be the normal restrictions that apply to all WBB rules. Ex. 10 Warriors killed by Scatter Laser shots from a War Walker squad. Lay all 10 down if there is a Tomb Spyder with in 12" or another unit with in 6" they should get to roll WBB.

Now a new question the WBB rolls are on a per model basis so say in example above that if 10 are dead from the warrior squad but only 4 are with in 6" and/or 12" are they the only 4 that get to roll or does just one member of the squad have to be in range?

Quote :
Of course the International FAQ might be worded different but isn't really official GW rules either
They may not be GW approved, but they are more comprehensive and thought out than any GW FAQ. All in all as a 40k community they are considered the end all in the FAQ world. Usually the only people that argue against them, and I am not saying you are Very Happy, are the ones who it hurts their army or the way they play. Sean has already started that these will be used for the upcoming Tourny so read them well lest someone pulls a fast one on you.

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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:40 pm

Yes the int'l FAQ 2.0 will be used as the major tourneys use them...
There will be amendments as needed or additional FAQ's written for our Tourney about a month out from the tourney...
Good questions by the way John!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:09 pm

Just throwing this out there they are up to INAT 2.1 may I assume we will use the most recent at the time of the tournament?

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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:55 pm

The WBB rules are a miserable pile of headache.

When I played necrons, I tried to use common sense with WBB: Ressurecting units with units of the same type (Warriors in warriors, destroyers in destroyers).


...But my common sense also said that models down and awaiting WBB didn't count as part of a unit anymore, so wouldn't be removed in a sweeping advance, and GW cocked that one up.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:24 pm

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Quote :
Now a new question the WBB rolls are on a per model basis so say in example above that if 10 are dead from the warrior squad but only 4 are with in 6" and/or 12" are they the only 4 that get to roll or does just one member of the squad have to be in range?

Actually based on the answer below I'd tend to say that it is any 1 member of the unit measured the appropriate distance to the orb, Tomb spyder, or unit of same type as may be required by the WBB check at the time the damage is assesed.

GW FAQ wrote:
Q. When is the range of the resurrection orb
checked? At the time the Necron becomes
damaged or at the start of the turn when WBB is
rolled for?
A. Check range when a Necron becomes
damaged. If at least one (undamaged) model in
the unit is within 6" of a resurrection orb at that
point, leave the damaged Necron on the board.
Otherwise, immediately remove it from the table


Last edited by John Gemrich on Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:55 pm

I think I am in agreement with you John.

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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:10 pm

Yes what ever the most recent one that is out minus the whole Deffrolla vs. Vehicles ruling... Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:50 pm

It looks to me like you have everything straight about the Necrons, John and Chad. No disagreements here.

One weird thing we've come up with before is that the codex doesn't explicitly say what to do with Necrons that were both A) killed by non-instant death/power weapons AND B)were out of the 6" range of other necrons when killed. It actually leaves room for the interpretation that those guys stay on the board until the end of the game OR until they have a chance to try a WBB roll. I have prodded around about this and the resounding response is that the necrons in question are removed immediately, but I can see where there is cause to argue otherwise.

I too disagree about that deffrolla ruling though... That and the Dark Angel bikes not counting as scoring units are the only issues I found with INAT.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:07 pm

Yeah had to read the rule a couple times. Your right that as long as the Necron has not had to take a WBB roll it could stay there until it had to make the test and then removed if it rolled a 1-3 per the rule.

I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it, they really are not taking any part in the battle and only have a 50% chance to get back up once there is a unit with in 6". As easy as it is to phase them out, that little interpretation might help them be a little more stable...but that is for another post if the Necron players wish to discuss it.

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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:21 pm

I'll have to say that after reading the FAQ this evening again I'll have to agree with John also on the unit types and WBB rolls. It is a definite change from last years FAQ. I played Necrons at Adepticon last year in the team and individual tournaments and it was destroyers to destroyers, immortals to imortals and so on. I wonder if this an attempt to help the Necrons some since they kind of got nerfed in 5th.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:27 pm

Chad wrote:
I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it, they really are not taking any part in the battle and only have a 50% chance to get back up once there is a unit with in 6".

I also don't really care either way. For the most part, the only reason this issue can even come up is if the Necron player is already doing something horribly wrong so it is kind of an irrelevant problem.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:39 am

So if everyone agrees that they join the nearest unit of like Type then that means mixed units?

What if the addition of new Necrons takes you over the max size of the unit?

Not really a big deal just curious.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:14 am

Warmonger wrote:
I'll have to say that after reading the FAQ this evening again I'll have to agree with John also on the unit types and WBB rolls. It is a definite change from last years FAQ. I played Necrons at Adepticon last year in the team and individual tournaments and it was destroyers to destroyers, immortals to imortals and so on. I wonder if this an attempt to help the Necrons some since they kind of got nerfed in 5th.

Is there a Necron specific board to go for questions? Or just to Dakka Dakka?
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:42 am

40k online has a Necron specific forum if you want to try it. Dakka doesn't as far as I know.
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PostSubject: Re: Necron We'll be back rule   Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:29 pm

I am 99% sure it doesn't matter if you go over the max unit size... as the max unit size really doesn't matter past force building.

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