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Bojesphob
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PostSubject: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 pm

I just went through the new codex and am figuring out what I want to take in the army.... and I have to say, it's amazing the amount of difference between what I took to the tourney last year, and what I might be able to take this year! This new codex is.... WOW. That's all I can say. Once I get my list figured out, I'll definitely post it!

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 01, 2009 12:15 am

What kind of odds we get for the new dex being completely overpowered and utterly ridiculous. I have only skimmed the rumors and if it is anywhere close, 40k is going to stink it up bad with a ton of IG armies until the next superpower comes out.

If you would please give me a % of how accurate the rumors were...

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 01, 2009 6:13 am

from what few rumors i have heard and the rulebook i have... it seems 100% accurate.. But what rumors specifically were you interested in?
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 01, 2009 8:47 am

Yeah, it depends on what you heard.... There are a lot of characters and what not that do a lot of stuff, and you'll see lists that, in my estimation, are about 35% larger than before. I'm thinking of fielding an HQ, 2 platoons of guys, 2 LRs (Executioner and Vanquisher), a Vandetta, veterans, and maybe even an Inquisitor, all for 1750. Definitely more powerful than the last version!! Overpowered.... naw, they are still guardsmen. So, mainly 3 WS, 3 T, and 3 S...

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 01, 2009 10:53 am

Ok, so I just threw this together.... any thoughts? total of 1747 points

Command Squad
...regimental standard
...Sniper Rifle
...Medipack
...Colonel Straken (Gung-ho, Senior Officer, Cold Steel and Courage, Man of Adamantium)
...vox caster
...Master of Ordinance

Platoon Command Squad
...vox caster
...Lascannon
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapons Squad
...3x Heavy Bolter
Special Weapon Squad
...2x Meltas
...Demolition Charge


Platoon Command Squad
...Commander
......Bolt Pistol
......Power Weapon
...vox caster
...Heavy Bolter
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapons Squad
...3x Lascannon
Special Weapon Squad
...2x Meltas
...Demolition Charge

Inquisitor and Retinue (Inquisitor with Termie armor, Storm Shield, Power weapon, Astropath, Heirophant, Acolyte, and familiar, Psychic Hood)


Veterans Squad
...vox caster
...3x Melta Guns
...Demolitions (entire squad has Melta Bombs. One has a Demolitions Charge in addition to his equipment)
...Gunnery Sergeant Harker (relentless, Feel No Pain, Catachen Devils, Heavy Bolter)
Vandetta Gunship (1 twin linked Lascannon)
...heavy bolters
...Hellfury Missles


Leman Russ Vanquisher
...Lascannon
...Heavy Bolters sponsons

Leman Russ Executioner
...Lascannon
...heavy bolters sponsons


I thought about excluding the Inquisitor, but I really like the models from Forgeworld, and want to use them, but not sure, as I could use the points towards other stuff....

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 01, 2009 5:19 pm

The Codex isn't that bad, I think it will end up like Lizard men, completely balanced, so people will go backto the power armies.
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Sat May 02, 2009 8:08 pm

I agree that the codex is improved by a good amount, but I think it is a balanced army there isnt anything overly great, though that missle, I mean come on thats mean missle but single shot:(. Twisted Evil Plasma leman russ Twisted Evil there are a few things I could see people trying to abuse but in most cases it is well balanced as anything can get
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Sat May 02, 2009 11:22 pm

Initial observations:

Storm Troopers are badass. Each gets a hellpistol and close combat weapon in addition to his hellgun, which means they each get 2 Attacks in close combat now. Unfortunately, they've renamed hellguns "hot-shot lasguns," and I refuse to acknowledge this new lame-sounding moniker.

The way Officers work is vastly changed. They no longer give Leadership bonuses to nearby Guardsmen, and instead give Orders to squads within 12". So in exchange for the Orders system, IG armies took a big Ld hit.

Furthermore, vox-links don't extend the range of an Officer's Command radius (the range at which he can give orders), so Company and Platoon Command Squads must remain close to the squads they lead. No more hiding in the back with a master-vox.

Overall, many units were bumped up in both points cost and effectiveness. Ogryns are 40 points a pop now, but T5, 3 attacks, and a 3 shot ripper gun make up for it. Storm Troopers are 16 points a model (same as Space Marines!), but their AP 3 hellguns and choice of "Special Operations" mission make them worth the upgrade. Leman Russes are more expensive, but being able to fire ordnance plus all other weapons is absolutely amazing.

While the tougher units got more expensive, the cheap units got even cheaper. Command Squads, Infantry Squads and Chimeras all cost fewre points. Chimeras took the biggest points cut - from 85pts to 55pts with multilaser and heavy bolter included!

All in all, a much-needed revamp. The Guard now have some infantry units which could conceivably accomplish an objective by themselves ... and if they can't, they probably cost less!
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Sun May 03, 2009 3:33 pm

I refuse to give in to such crap that is the new Guard Codex. Join me in not starting a new army of those damn Imperial Pissants..

..instead I'll be directing my resources to Traitors instead ..fully airborne to be specific pirat
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Sun May 03, 2009 4:43 pm

what about those of us who had already started a army under the old rules and just never got around to finishing it Razz yea thats what I fall under Razz still that plasma leman russ thats gonna be fun converting
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Sun May 03, 2009 5:33 pm

I looked over the new codex and I generally like it.

I'd have to say that one of the cheese meisters of the lists are the Psykers, based on initial thoughts.

Taking 1 or 2 bad ass psykers and then 3 units of the Psyker squads... Put them in Chimeras for extra protection...

add some vet squads for scoring purposes then round out with Leman russ battle tanks standard issue!!! and of course a valkyrie or 2 for fun...

Now I gotta get a ton o psykers...

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Sun May 03, 2009 7:39 pm

They are just in Chimeras, still t3 and the Leadership ability is only useful to non fearless armies, They own Nob bikers though, and I heartell that was the intent.

It's hard to call anything with a Guardsmen stat cheese, but the rendeing Penal Leigion comes a little close. Just for the fact that 10 guardsmen can get lucky and rend a Carnifex to death with what amounts to Broken glass bottles and sharp tooth brushes.

I'm just converting my own psykers from my old Inquisitor retinue.
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Sun May 03, 2009 8:44 pm

But putting them in Chimeras gives them the protection for a round and a good bases to launch their spify attacks from especially is you stick the Primaris Psykers with them!

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Mon May 04, 2009 1:47 am

Quote :
Ok, so I just threw this together.... any thoughts? total of 1747 points

My only suggestion would be to re think your command squad.
...regimental standard
...Sniper Rifle
...Medipack
...Colonel Straken (Gung-ho, Senior Officer, Cold Steel and Courage, Man of Adamantium)
...vox caster
...Master of Ordinance

Standard, medipack and Straken tells me you want to be CC; while Sniper Rifle and Master of Ordinance says shooting. both the Sniper and MoO need to stay stationary to fire their weapons which is a waste of Straken's ability to deal damage and the bonus from the standard, or vise-versa. And while feel no pain is great, with toughness 3, you generally wont get to use it against shooting attacks (at least not the ones aimed at your command). So I'd decide weather your going to run your command into the heat of combat yelling orders to the grunts, or if they are going to sit back in comfort and tell the grunts where to shoot.
Reading through the rest of your list it seems like you'd be better off tailoring a standard Company Commander to sit amongst your platoons and direct the heavy weapon teams at key enemy units. Use the extra points to give your Veteran squad some backup or beef up the number of heavy weapon teams for your commander to order.

Quote :
Storm Troopers are badass. Each gets a hellpistol and close combat weapon in addition to his hellgun, which means they each get 2 Attacks in close combat now. Unfortunately, they've renamed hellguns "hot-shot lasguns," and I refuse to acknowledge this new lame-sounding moniker.
So I take it then you won't be taking advantage of the "First rank, fire, second rank, fire" order that any officer or Sergeant Bastonne could issue to the Storm Troopers since they are using "lasguns". yep, your right, who wants 3 shots a model if it means giving up the name "hellgun" Smile

Quote :
But putting them in Chimeras gives them the protection for a round and a good bases to launch their spify attacks from especially is you stick the Primaris Psykers with them!
Am I missing something "spiffy" in the rules, or are you making the same reading error I initially did? Psyker Battle Squad powers are only altered by 'sanctioned pskers' (Primaris Psyker is not a sanctioned psyker so no bonus). Though you could be referring to giving the squad Nightshroud... did I just answer my own question?

I really like the flexibility in the new codex. It leaves a lot of room for fluff armies, and lets face it, sometimes you are really just out for a fun (completely non-competitive) game. This codex allows for a lot of variation. My only major beef with the setup is the moving of Heavy weapons teams into the infantry platoon, or perhaps more so the removal of the heavy weapons team from the Heavy slot. Great yes, we have the flexibility to play an army with veterans or penal legion as our only troops, but we have to sacrifice our heavy weapon teams to do it. So now I have to burn 130pts (2 veteran or penal legion squads) in order to unlock 5 heavy weapon teams. To me that kind of limits you to taking infantry platoons.

Other than that, I was rather impressed to see Mogul Kamir take down Wazdakka in my game today - his Nob bikers then proceeded to huge choppa and powerclaw all the Rough Riders, leaving Kamir to commit suicide (thanks to fearless). But hey, score one for the Attilian!
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Mon May 04, 2009 9:03 am

Thanks, Fleck, I'll look into that tonight when I get home... I definitely have the models to add some more HW teams (and I definitely don't have time to model a Straken).... Thanks Smile

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Mon May 04, 2009 9:53 am

So hot-shot lasguns count as lasguns for the purposes of "FRF, SRF?" I had assumed that when it said lasguns it meant basic lasguns. If it works with storm troopers I might have to take a second unit of 'em. I still stand by my disdain for "hot-shot lasguns" though.
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Mon May 04, 2009 10:16 am

Quote :
So hot-shot lasguns count as lasguns for the purposes of "FRF, SRF?" I had assumed that when it said lasguns it meant basic lasguns. If it works with storm troopers I might have to take a second unit of 'em. I still stand by my disdain for "hot-shot lasguns" though.

yep, that was GW's tricky way of giving storm troopers a "lasgun" for purpose of the order. I agree with you on the "hot-shot" over "hellgun" though, but for the extra shot, I'll go for it.
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Mon May 04, 2009 3:52 pm

Agreed, there is something not quite right about"Hot-shot lasgun". I just can't put my finger on it.
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Wed May 06, 2009 10:02 pm

Took the suggestions in and came up with this:
Command Squad
...Sniper Rifle x2
...Master of Ordinance

Platoon Command Squad
...Commander
……Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapons Squad
…3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapons Squad
...3x Heavy Bolter
Special Weapon Squad
…3x Meltas



Platoon Command Squad
...Commander
......Bolt Pistol
......Power Weapon
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapons Squad
…3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapons Squad
...3x Lascannon
Special Weapon Squad
…3x Meltas


Inquisitor and Retinue (Inquisitor with Termie armor, Storm Shield, Power weapon, 2x Astropath, 2x Acolyte, Psychic Hood) - two ablative wounds to acolytes, can shoot at Deep Strikers, or can pawn off the shots at deep strikers

Primaris Psyker

Veterans Squad
...3x Melta Guns
...Demolitions (entire squad has Melta Bombs. One has a Demolitions Charge in addition to his equipment)
...Gunnery Sergeant Harker
(relentless, Feel No Pain, Catachen Devils, Heavy Bolter)
Vandetta Gunship (1 twin linked Lascannon)
...heavy bolters
...Hellfury Missles


Leman Russ Vanquisher
...Lascannon
...Heavy Bolters sponsons

Leman Russ Eradicator
...Lascannon
...heavy bolters sponsons


Does this seem to be a better layout?

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 08, 2009 6:30 am

A bad reservs roll will see your drop troops arrive in time to see their homeboys being ripped to peices. that vet squad just doesn't fit. It's like raining down candy in a flying pinata, for it's point costs. Get the fleet guys for your command squad and some voxes to re-issue orders.Also trade in the power weapons for fists. it's only 5 points more and you are already I3. Adding a plasma gun something to line squads might be helpful.
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 08, 2009 8:54 am

sexiest, they don't have to come in as reserves.... at least, I don't think that they do. Maybe I've read the vendetta/Valkyrie rules wrong, but I figured I'd just drop them on the board during deployment and then they leave the Vendetta like they would a regular transport (well, except the full movement rule where they have to do a dangerous terrain test). That is 275 points, I guess, to work with if I don't take them, but it would give me some added speed/firepower that my list is lacking....

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 08, 2009 10:55 am

You've got it right, the vets can just deploy in the vendetta and disembark like normal. Only thing is, Gunnery Sergeant Harker seems to be a really bad fit for the squad. With the 3x Meltas and Melta Bombs, I'm assuming that squad is meant for tank hunting. That means they'll usually be shooting at targets that Harker's heavy bolter will be wasted against. Plus, Harker's Catachan Devils special rule (gives Infiltrate, Stealth, Move Through Cover) will never come into play if you start them in the vendetta and use the transport to get them to their objective. I would instead suggest Sergeant Bastonne - he's Ld10 and can issue a "Bring it Down" order that makes your meltas twin-linked when shooting at a vehicle or MC. Overall, he'd vastly increase your squad's effectiveness.
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 08, 2009 11:28 am

Looks like a pretty sold list to me. You are correct about the Veterans, they can deploy at the start of the game. My preference might be to drop one of the special weapons melta teams, three seems a bit excessive for dealing with heavy support. you could probably use the points to add in another infantry squad. If your feeling really crazy, go for some rough riders, they still make a great counter to strong enemy units that would otherwise reek havoc on your IG. Either way, I think you could come up with a better ways to spend the points.
What are your plans for the Primaris Psyker? what unit will he accompany?
keep up the good work,
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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 08, 2009 11:33 am

The Primaris Psyker is going to join the Inquisitor's Retinue. Since that's considered a unit (I've done some research and it seems to indicate that an IC can join it until the retinue is gone and it's only the Inquisitor left), and he's going to have the ability to use his Lightning Attack on deep striking units when they first enter the board (as long as they are within a certain distance). He will also be able to give the Inquisitor the ability to use the Psyker's masking ability as well.

Only bad thing about adding in Rough Riders is that this list is going to be for the tourney next week, and I don't see being able to scrounge up a unit of them by then and have them painted. This army I have all of the models for at the moment, so I'll be able to have it all painted up by next Saturday. I was thinking about maybe using a Plasma heavy sentinel, that might be cool Smile

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PostSubject: Re: New Guard list observations now w/ updated sample list (5/6)   Fri May 08, 2009 11:43 am

Ok.... I'm reading some other things that are saying that maybe he can't join the retinue..... I'm not sure about that, but if I can't join him up, since I have two Astropath's in the retinue, I can give him the shoot at deep striking units as long as he's within 12".

Can any of you rule guys give me a definite yea or nae on the question of if the Psyker can join a retinue or not? I definitely don't want to do this illegally, so I want to make sure that I do this right....

Fleck, if worse comes to worst, I could always join the Psyker up with the Lascannon HW team, and when someone DSs in, I can have the Psyker AND the lascannons pop off some free shots at them Twisted Evil

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