Ok after play testing I have revised my list and I think it is now ok for public viewing. Make sure to read the bottem before posting. Thanks!



CCS x5 (7)
- x4 meltas
- officer of the fleet
- astropath
- melta bomb or krak
- chimera
- Multi laser
- heavy flamer 210


Psyker battle squad x10
- Chimera
- Multi laser
- heavy flamer 165


Psyker battle squad x10
- Chimera
- Multi laser
- heavy flamer 165


Veterans x10
- x3 plasma
- Chimera
- Multi laser
- heavy flamer 170

Veterans x10
- x3 plasma
- Chimera
- Multi laser
- heavy flamer 170

Veterans x10
- x3 melta
- chimera
- Multi laser
- heavy flamer 155



Vendetta gunship 130

Vendetta gunship 130

Leman Russ Executioner
- lascannon
205


1500pt on the dot.

Ok so naturally I still have ideas rolling around in my head. The most obvious would be to axe the second PBS giving me 165 pts, could also axe the LC and krak giving me a total of 185 pts. Which would buy another vet squad mounted in the CCS's chim. Put the CCS in the detta and probably add plasma sponsons to the executioner. Could also throw a inquisitor with mystics if I had to be cheesy but really I don't even think that is legal ( at least in my eyes)

Ok what do you got?

I think the list is solid. I don't see the cheese in the list itself.

Too many players think if you have a tight list then you're bringing cheese. Don't be fooled or persuaded to bring a light list. If it's legal in your 'dex, then it's legal on the table.

Do you play 1500 pts a lot? Just curious

I would say if you do take an Inquisitor, the build out that I found to be EXTREMELY fun in CC is Inquisitor Lord, Termie armor, Psychic hood, Storm Shield, Power Weapon (force weapon if you have the points for 25 pts more), 2 Acolytes (for two ablative wounds) and two Mystics (which gives you the ability to give a model within 12" a free shot at Daemons or deep striking units). All that for about 138 points (I think that's what it was, you'd have to check to make sure). But, for that, you get a guy with a 2+ armor save, 4+ invuln save in CC, a bunch of wounds (5, I think, though don't have the dex on me, so not 100% sure), a bunch of attacks, high initiative, and powerful attacks (especially if you take a Force Weapon). I used this in the tourney with my normal guardsmen and he cleaned up when I got him into CC. He beat out a unit of Space Wolves space marines, and held his own with a unit of Eldar with a Farseer (I think that's what it was), which was I think 10 guys strong to begin with! The only game he didn't do well was against the necrons, and that was only because I didn't hide him well enough in cover and he got shot to pieces right off the bat.


Anyhow, you can take an Inquisitor as an ally, and it's not cheese. I think, in the case above, it gives some good close combat skill that would otherwise be missing in a Guard army!

Tis is the Chimera list thats been going around, it's really solid but not cheese. In the end it's just 12 armor tanks rolling around. It will do above average.

Is there a specific definition of "cheese", or is that just thrown around by the loser when someone with a good list kicks butt?

Go with Limburger for true stinkiness.

A cheddar list makes your opponent work for a win instead of it being a gimme. There are players who like to test their own lists against these kinds of armies.
Bring a list that's not so heavy for the more fluffy player. Not everyone likes an iron list.

And FYI

Two PBS are often cosidered cheese.

I beg too differ on this subject. Cheese simply a list tailored to destroy an Player and leave little or no hope of winning.

For instance if you know your opponet's list before hand, you can pretty much make a list against him that makes the game pretty much unwinnable and not fun. (I.E taking the santuary power because you know your buddy is going to play daemons, thus making you invincible)

Secondly taking a list like Nob bikers against a new player with two boxs of Black reach marines is the very face of cheese, I would be like giving somebody a basket ball and sending them out to play an NBA all star.

In a turney all beats are off of course, and I've been playing long enough to counter every powerful list out there, But I always enjoy games where I get beat by a good player over games where I see a point and click army.


It's a choice you have to make, do you want to rely on a list to win, or can you put a golf handicap on yourself, not follow the crowd and leave with the fact that your list had nothing to do that butt whooping you put out.

When you bring a powerful list like Nob biker or lash spam, they game goes from friendly to cut-throat, you won't get any whine to go with your cheese from me, but as a 14 year vet I will use every LEGAL rule and trick I can to win. I hate playing that way because I'm a really nice guy, but I've had to put one one Slannesh prince to many

(Just my thoughts, not aimed at anybody!)

Do you make a list to lose? No, you make one to win.

More often than not, you will play an opponent whose list you don't know like the back of your hand. And if you do, this person will also know what you are bringing to the table and thus should prepare for it.

If you play a noob, then cut them some slack, but if it's a vet player, they should expect none (slack).

Sexiest wrote:
"I will use every LEGAL rule and trick I can to win"

You always should, this is a givin', even in a friendly game. I've been playing Warhammer for almost 20 years and I don't even give one of my gaming buddies any slack and they don't give me any (right Warmonger) when we play. No one should, you play to have fun (1# rule), but you also play to win. Who makes a list only to think, "I'll go play today and hopefully lose with this list". Come on get real!

I play at list that I like, or sometimes it's all the models I have. I don't have nob bikers, because I alreay had an Ork army same with my IG Chaos, Nids and Daemon hunters. Building a list for the sake of winning is self defeating. It's only a year or two, before a new codex comes out and renders your army almost useless (I'm looking at you, Castle Tau). A list is only the first part, tactics, player skill, judgement all pay a bigger factor.
Not playing an optimised list, is in no way playing to lose, , I simply don't want an easy win. And I won't replace all 5 of my armies whenever GW needs to sell new models.

Just because a player plays an optimal list, doesn't guarentee a win or even an easy one. There are tactics to take out such lists; dual lash, nob bikers, LR spam. And with many players preparing for these lists, it takes a little more strategy and tactica to run one than you make it to be. Those who choose to bring these lists should not be crucified for building them. There is no "gimme" list in 40k. All lists have their weakness, for example lash lists don't work well against mech lists.

No one said you have to sell your armies, but if you're not willing to evolve with the game, then don't complain when you're left behind.

I agree with Dume.

Everyone builds a list to win. If you don't I envy the time you have to just allow others to beat you over and over.

People really blow out the "oh crap the new codex my army is useless thing." We all know some models become obsolete but at the end of the day it's never really THAT bad.

I'd associate cheese with just the general consensus on what is good in the competitive scene and peoples need to label it. No biggy, and there is always a way around it.

War.

War never changes.


Ok less talk about the definition of cheese and more critique and ideas and tactics for my list.

I like the idea that the 4 man squad can hop out of the chim and either force rerolls on cover saves or twin link BS 4 meltas. Thats what I like. Also seeing as how you CAN twin link plasma, this gives me new ideas.

With leadership of 7 you can someimes ount of your oders not comming through when you need them. This list suffers from paper thin armour and low LD, mass anti-tank (what most people carry in spades these days) may be able to unload on your critical tanks before you can pull off the PBS or twin-link melta combo. Anything STR 6 and up can can rain the pain. Mystics are legal. Adding "list of cheese" to the title will always bring on talk about what, if anything, cheese is.