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 Moving all out, scouts, obscured?

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archite666
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PostSubject: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:14 pm

Yeah so if I move all out in my scout move do I get to be obscured? I knowi it says last movement phase but I was wondering if they FAQed that or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:47 pm

10 views? No one knows? Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:26 pm

Camp A says that the scout move doesn't count as a movement phase, because it doesn't say it is one, and thus doesn't trigger the last movement phase clause.

Camp B says the scout move does count, since it says you move like you're moving in a movement phase.

Basically, it comes down to whether or not moving like in a movement phase counts as a movement phase.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:13 am

hm, thanks for the reply.

Interesting...no FAQ eh?
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:38 am

Not that I've seen.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:29 pm

Perhaps I'm confused, but what are you referencing? What are you moving 'all out' to become obscured?

Off the top of my head, your answer would be no. Following the order of events in the mission deployments (p 92 BRB). "...Deploy any infiltrators and make any scout moves. Start the game!..." The scout move doesn't occur in any turn phase, it happens before the game begins.

But I am still confused by your reference to obscured due to moving.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:19 pm

guynamedFleck wrote:
Perhaps I'm confused, but what are you referencing? What are you moving 'all out' to become obscured?

Off the top of my head, your answer would be no. Following the order of events in the mission deployments (p 92 BRB). "...Deploy any infiltrators and make any scout moves. Start the game!..." The scout move doesn't occur in any turn phase, it happens before the game begins.

But I am still confused by your reference to obscured due to moving.

Pg. 71 Under "shooting at skimmers" A skimmer moving flat out counts as obscured.
I scout moved my vendetta flat out and my opponent has a first turn.

Pg. 76 Under the "scouts" rule. You make a free move "This is done exactly as in their movement phase..."
Only restraint is you must stay 12' away from enemy units.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:22 pm

Ah, yes, forgot about skimmers.

But the answer would still be no.

p.76 Under the Scout Rules, the sentence right before you started quoting.
"To represent this, after both sides have deployed, but before the first turn, any scouts may make a normal move."

This is a free move before the game begins. So you're skimmer has not "moved flat out in its last movement phase" (p71) since you have yet to have a movement phase.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:51 pm

guynamedFleck wrote:
Ah, yes, forgot about skimmers.

But the answer would still be no.

p.76 Under the Scout Rules, the sentence right before you started quoting.
"To represent this, after both sides have deployed, but before the first turn, any scouts may make a normal move."

This is a free move before the game begins. So you're skimmer has not "moved flat out in its last movement phase" (p71) since you have yet to have a movement phase.

I have read that but it just ist very clear, its not a case of clear cut rules, it highly open to how its read, as the scout rules say it moves like its in the movement phase. Plus what difference does it make if I was in phase or not my bird is still going at the speed of light.

Thanks for input though.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:50 pm

guynamedFleck wrote:
Ah, yes, forgot about skimmers.

But the answer would still be no.

p.76 Under the Scout Rules, the sentence right before you started quoting.
"To represent this, after both sides have deployed, but before the first turn, any scouts may make a normal move."

This is a free move before the game begins. So you're skimmer has not "moved flat out in its last movement phase" (p71) since you have yet to have a movement phase.

Some people argue that "moving flat out through making a normal move" qualifies as a "moved flat out in its last movement phase".
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:55 pm

archite666 wrote:


I have read that but it just ist very clear, its not a case of clear cut rules, it highly open to how its read, as the scout rules say it moves like its in the movement phase. Plus what difference does it make if I was in phase or not my bird is still going at the speed of light.

Thanks for input though.

I would disagree,it is quite clear. And the writers went into detail to make it so. "moves like in the movement phase" is telling you that you get a standard move (6" for infantry, 12" for jump infantry, 12-24" for vehicles, etc.). As opposed to an additional D6" movement for scout. Or that you could take your move and then run, fleet, gain an assault 6" (as per jetbikes).

Key word here [BRB p76] is the action is performed "exactly as in their movement phase". It does not say you gain a free movement phase.

And it does make a difference whether your in "phase" or not. I can kick field goals all day long, but the points won't go up on the board until the game has actually started. It's very clearly stated that the move is made pre-game. If you want fluff, they are scouts, the move represents them "scouting" ahead of the army. Not shooting an energy drink and zipping off to fight. bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:48 pm

guynamedFleck wrote:
archite666 wrote:


I have read that but it just ist very clear, its not a case of clear cut rules, it highly open to how its read, as the scout rules say it moves like its in the movement phase. Plus what difference does it make if I was in phase or not my bird is still going at the speed of light.

Thanks for input though.

I would disagree,it is quite clear. And the writers went into detail to make it so. "moves like in the movement phase" is telling you that you get a standard move (6" for infantry, 12" for jump infantry, 12-24" for vehicles, etc.). As opposed to an additional D6" movement for scout. Or that you could take your move and then run, fleet, gain an assault 6" (as per jetbikes).

Key word here [BRB p76] is the action is performed "exactly as in their movement phase". It does not say you gain a free movement phase.

And it does make a difference whether your in "phase" or not. I can kick field goals all day long, but the points won't go up on the board until the game has actually started. It's very clearly stated that the move is made pre-game. If you want fluff, they are scouts, the move represents them "scouting" ahead of the army. Not shooting an energy drink and zipping off to fight. bounce

Um I think you need to reread the pages weve talked about, some of the things you say make me think your should reread them.

But I appreciate the input, but this is highly debated at my FLGS and would like to see something offical on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:55 am

There is nothing official that I can find. I also don't think you may see anything official as it seems pretty clear from a RAW standpoint to me.

Take a look at Turboboosters. If you turboboost you get 3+ cover save in the opponents next shooting phase.

This can occur during a scout move for those with both USRs. So, a unit of bikes can move w/ a Turboboosted scout move and receive the cover save.

However, you are not obscured with a scout move on its own at flat out. The scout move is "Like" a movement phase but this is not a movement phase.

If the rules were intended to grant obscurity for scout move skimmers they would have said for the opponents next shooting phase your skimmer counts as receiving a 4+ cover save.

While I could see it going either way in a FAQ, the RAW is pretty clear IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:32 pm

I think I remember reading somewhere in a faq that it said that the scout move creates a movement phase that allows you to do all the things you can normally do during a movement phase so in essence its a pre first turn movement phase. They definatly faq'ed that scout move for bikes as being legit for the 3+cover so it would make sense that this is a huge argument for the same with skimmers since they basicly use similar rules.
I think the main reason there hasen't been a faq directly for this is before the new IG codex I don't believe there was a scout skimmer until now.
Anyone know how they played it at the 'Ard boyz this year?
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:01 pm

ya know, thats really funny and ironic...

I was judge at my ard boys and I would have ruled against it, as he is right, it is not in the movement phase, its all the wording.

Turbo boosting is worded completly different than the flat out rule.

I dont have the book off hand but it is worded to it works.
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PostSubject: Re: Moving all out, scouts, obscured?   Today at 9:22 am

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