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 The Black Legion 1850

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Marc
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PostSubject: The Black Legion 1850   Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:05 am

So it appears my boys in black are moving up to the 1850 which means more models to buy Very Happy ..gonna shelve the Dread for some more fasta components though I will miss the Twin Autocannon as it punches thru APCs quite nicely. Hordes are out and Mech is in so the Rhino Squads are shuffled. I found 10pts to mark the DP giving +1 attack is a steal.. anyways, thoughts on the below revision?


The Black Legion

Daemon Prince [Khorne, Wings]

Berserkers [10] Champ [PW]
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino

Raptors [6] Meltagun [2]

Obliterators [3]
Vindicator [Dae Poss]
Land Raider [Dae Poss]
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Ricter
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:13 am

Looks nice and clean. You might want to consider a pfist on the zerks, so someone tie them up with a dread as easily.

Not too big a fan of raptors, but I understand their purpose.
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:54 pm

Thanks for your thoughts..

Ricter wrote:
Not too big a fan of raptors, but I understand their purpose.
Agreed. They should be OK with the amount of armour about the field to help block LOS to them. Vindis are good for that. They are not horrible for 140pts. They should be able to keep up and help to tip combats that the Rhino squads are involved. Bumping the cost to include a Champion was just too much to digest. The 6th model makes me feel better to boost the squad to a support role rather than an expensive Meltagun delivery system.

My other option was 10 Lesser Daemons for 130pts but then you need the allowance to drop Icons within all your squads to bring them in.

Ricter wrote:
You might want to consider a pfist on the zerks, so someone tie them up with a dread as easily.
If I allow a Dread or some other big gribbly to be close, then they deserve to die. I'd rather have the 5 Str5 Init5 power weapon attacks on the charge.
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:04 pm

I think 2 Oblits would be better than the Vindicator, drop one flamer, run both units together and you have a very scary fire base. I like Vindicators but they never seem to make their points back IMO.

A powerfist would be ideal for the Berserkers but if you perfer the power weapon you'll have to rely on your krak grenades to help out against dreads.
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:33 pm

Thanks!

Warmonger wrote:
A powerfist would be ideal for the Berserkers but if you perfer the power weapon you'll have to rely on your krak grenades to help out against dreads.
OK.. what did I miss? Are Dreads all off a sudden the new craze?
The 6" a turn large targets with AV12 which are one weapon destroyed result away from rubbish? Suspect

Warmonger wrote:
I think 2 Oblits would be better than the Vindicator
Agreed, but I'm not so sure I can get the Rhinos where I need them without the Vindi soaking up some looks.

If I drop the Vindi I would have to go Land Raider imo..

Something like this:


Daemon Prince [Warptime, Wings]

Berserkers [10] Champ [PW]
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Meltagun
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Meltagun, Rhino

Raptors [6] Meltagun [2]

Obliterators [2]
Land Raider [Dae Poss]
Land Raider [Dae Poss]
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Ricter
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:10 pm

Really what I should have said is to avoid being tied up and just left it at that. While dreadnoughts aren't everything, there are a lot of other units that your zerkers can and will get pitted by. All Walkers, Wraithlords, Avatars, Daemon Princes, Fexes, hell even a lot of t6 models.

Sure, you can probably avoid one - but now you're letting your opponent tell you where your zerkers can go.

In most lists, this isn't so much an issue, except you only have one thing that can save your zerkers, which is your DP. With how many points your zerkers cost, they should not have to be babysat by a DP.

I like the first list better - a CSM squad just doesn't take advantage of the LR's strengths well enough.

I don't think Vindicators are really ever expected to get their points back - that's not what they're good at. They make a 48" circle and say, "Anything that comes in here dies." And you effectively section off part of the board until your opponent answers the Vindicator.
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:06 am

..good stuff

I see your point in regards to the Power Fist. I guess it just has never came up as I was able to dictate where the Rhino squads were going and the Berserkers were clean up. Mind you this has only been a handful of one-off games and a pair of Planetstrike matches.

Vindicator is tough to use. It has rubbled a bastion, but more often than that it soaks up enemy fire. Daemonic Possession keeps it moving forward shielding Rhinos and blocking fire lanes. I think it gets to fire maybe twice a game as I'm probably over aggressive with it as a throwaway. One game it lost its cannon turn one and still achieved everything I needed it to do as it continued to annoy the opponent thus drawing more AT fire.

That said.. I probably could do without it Laughing as its became a crutch to running Rhinos and the extra Oblit firepower would allow me to return the Rhino squads to double Flamer and use the Land Raider in more of a direct spearhead role then switching to fire support late game.

Daemon Prince [Khorne, Wings]

Berserkers [10] Champ [PF]
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer [2] Rhino
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer [2] Rhino
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer [2] Rhino

Raptors [6] Meltagun [2]

Obliterators [2]
Obliterators [3]
Land Raider [Dae Poss]
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:11 pm

I would still go with the melta/flamer combo for the csm squads if points allow it. This allows some solid ap1 fire for termi squads, TMC's, etc.
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:40 am

Good call.. that would make the Raptors overkill.. hmmm..
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:45 pm

So far away from where I started Embarassed

Daemon Prince [Khorne, Wings]

Berserkers [10] Champ [PF]
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Melta, Rhino
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Melta, Rhino
Chaos Marines [10] Champ [PF] Flamer, Melta, Rhino

Obliterators [3]
Obliterators [3]
Land Raider [Dae Poss]

1800
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Sun Aug 16, 2009 3:16 pm

I like this list, a solid fire base with a mech rush going on and a prince in tow. It seems the only thing now is what to spend your extra 50 points on.
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:30 pm

I know it's a theme and he WILL be well blocked by the mech but don't you think MoN would be better on the DP?

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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:33 pm

I'll have to look into an uber Daemon Prince build. I have some points for it now where before it was simply go cheap.
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:52 pm

Marc wrote:

Quote :
So far away from where I started


Funny how that works Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:12 am

Warmonger wrote:
Funny how that works Laughing
Indeed Laughing

While I agree on the effectiveness of that many Obliterators, I'm not sure it would be so much fun to play against. Even in a tourney setting.
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PostSubject: Re: The Black Legion 1850   Today at 5:18 pm

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