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 The new Terminator I don't like WIP

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CaelynTek
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CaelynTek


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PostSubject: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptySat Aug 22, 2009 11:33 am

Here is the terminator I was talking about in my other thread.

I screwed up the wings on his chest royally, the belt buckle, and the sheild on his left arm, I couldn't get it straight to save my life, the access panel on his back which I tried to paint yellow and black warning colors on, I couldn't paint straight lines with the black to save my life either.

His power glove i got the kind of gradient I wanted, I just didn't want it all rough and sandpapery.

The scrolls hanging from his left knee I think I did ok on, but I haven't yet tried to paint the script/wiggly lines on them yet.

The new Terminator I don't like WIP Terminator01_WIP

I swear it's driving me nuts.

Of course I'm not close to being done, I still need to do a lot of detailing, I need to finish the storm bolter, I still need to detail the left shoulder etc....

John, I think I need to paint with you somewhere, sometime, perhaps some of the skill will rub off and I'll get my groove back. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptySun Aug 23, 2009 9:35 am

I recommend Tamiya tape to assist in your hazard lines..
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 5:45 am

Hmmm. Overall not a bad mini.

Your reds aren't bad. Just need some more blending. You are coming up from a blue red into a yellow red top. That causes some of the visual discontinuity you are feeling.

Power glove. You started from Red and worked up to white? I'd go reverse. Start white and glaze in your other colors. You'll be smoother with better gradients.


Shield/Skull/Aquila - Did you leave a Red base in those? You are right very rough. Was your white thinned? Give me blow by blow how you are a layering those up and what is the effect you are looking to achieve.

My first thought is you are going for white.

1) Base with Astronomicon grey. 2 or 3 thinned coats.
2) blue ink (or paint) thinned and applied to receases
3) highlight 1 with astronomicon
4) highlight 2 with white.

The fence Aquila in the photo below where given this treatment

http://jgemrich.smugmug.com/photos/615306928_A2cZo-M.jpg
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CaelynTek
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CaelynTek


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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 7:26 am

So I guess this means I can add my color blindness to my list of things that makes my painting suck worse now than before.

I have no idea what your talking about with the blue red/yellow red thing. I go by the colors listed on the bottles and their relative darkness.

I've had 20 laser retina procedures and as such, my color blindness is terrible as is my contrast and light sensitivity.

And for the wings on the chest, there is no way I could do more than two colors. I could never layer gray then white, I can barely paint one line across a feather of the wing, let alone two layered lines.

I guess I'll just have to do what I can and live with it.
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 9:21 am

CaelynTek wrote:
So I guess this means I can add my color blindness to my list of things that makes my painting suck worse now than before.

I have no idea what your talking about with the blue red/yellow red thing. I go by the colors listed on the bottles and their relative darkness.

I've had 20 laser retina procedures and as such, my color blindness is terrible as is my contrast and light sensitivity.

And for the wings on the chest, there is no way I could do more than two colors. I could never layer gray then white, I can barely paint one line across a feather of the wing, let alone two layered lines.

I guess I'll just have to do what I can and live with it.

Step back from the ledge my friend. Let's take a long breath and talk this out for a second.

OK... first you ask for a little advise then you rail against it stating what is impossible b/c you feel you don't have the capability (color blind) or skill (painting layers).

The purpose of posting was to give you an assist and some direction to improve.

When you self critique that "blending" is not correct (in the I suck at paintg post) ... what is it that you are seeing if you have both color blindness and the inability to see contrast? How are you detecting the blending issues?

As for Red blue vs. Yellow Red, can you see the difference in saturation and light tones in them or is it strickly a guess based on reading other's recipes?

You still haven't told me what you are looking to do with the aquilas. I assume you are able to base them in a different color and work 1 layer up? Today they are Red underneath white (as much as I can see). I think having a different base would be a start depending on the effect your are looking to achieve. Going stark white base is usually a no no as it not a 'realistic' color and gives you no way of working up into a highlight shade.

As for multiple layers... this is a matter of skill work. You need to continue to practice on these over time and you will find your groove. With the high number of aquilas and skulls on any imperial army, working through a few of them will really help achieve a nice look on your army.
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CaelynTek
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 9:44 am

Sorry John, I guess I am being a little self defeatist.....

John Gemrich wrote:

When you self critique that "blending" is not correct (in the I suck at paintg post) ... what is it that you are seeing if you have both color blindness and the inability to see contrast? How are you detecting the blending issues?

In the example of the powerfist. I like the color change of the blending from the orange fire color through yellow to white. But I don't like the fact that it's roughly blended. Meaning not a smooth transition. I know I can't accomplish such a smooth gradient as one would find in a computer generated blend, but I would like to not be able to so easily see the speckles in the gradient like it's made of sandpaper.

Quote :


As for Red blue vs. Yellow Red, can you see the difference in saturation and light tones in them or is it strickly a guess based on reading other's recipes?


My color blindness is a strange animal. Sometimes I could look at two colors side by side, such as Terra Cotta and Hunter Green, and they would look identical to me. Anything that is close to the same shade, and containing red and/or green, I may not be able to see a difference. Other times I may confuse bright orange with bright green, or light blue with light purple. Bright Yellows and Bright Greens I may not be able to tell the difference.

On all these issues I may not be able to tell them apart when side by side, other times I won't be able to tell them apart unless they ARE side by side.

In general though, basic medium toned colors I can tell apart or recognize. My wife likes to ask me what color things are when we are out shopping and stuff, I'm usually right 50 percent of the time.

Quote :
You still haven't told me what you are looking to do with the aquilas. I assume you are able to base them in a different color and work 1 layer up? Today they are Red underneath white (as much as I can see). I think having a different base would be a start depending on the effect your are looking to achieve. Going stark white base is usually a no no as it not a 'realistic' color and gives you no way of working up into a highlight shade.

On the "aquilas" (I've never used that word to describe them before) I've always used whatever dark based color the armor around it is, then layered white or another bright color on top of that. My problem isn't really with what color, I could use whatever colors you or anyone else thinks works, the problem with them is, I don't seem to have the motor skills anymore to layer onto such small and fine details. I try to run the brush along a single feather, and it ends up getting all over the feathers beside it, and crossing over the gaps.

Quote :
As for multiple layers... this is a matter of skill work. You need to continue to practice on these over time and you will find your groove. With the high number of aquilas and skulls on any imperial army, working through a few of them will really help achieve a nice look on your army.

And I guess this first set of Terminators will be my practice then Smile

Thanks John.
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Bojesphob
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 10:04 am

The only thing I can help with, Caelyn, that John hasn't addressed is the speckle/clumpiness of your blending for the powerfist. One thing I have found that helps when doing blending (and this is not the end all be all), is to get the drying retardant from Reaper paints, and mix in a small amount to the colors that you want to blend. I think what's happening is that while you're doing the blending, your paint is drying, and it starts to clump up, leaving little spots where it's showing that it was drying while you were still working. The drying retardant keeps this from happening (though you have to be a little more careful that you don't allow it to bleed, as if it's too runny it will do that). Try it out, it may help!
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CaelynTek
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 10:18 am

bojesphob1 wrote:
The only thing I can help with, Caelyn, that John hasn't addressed is the speckle/clumpiness of your blending for the powerfist. One thing I have found that helps when doing blending (and this is not the end all be all), is to get the drying retardant from Reaper paints, and mix in a small amount to the colors that you want to blend. I think what's happening is that while you're doing the blending, your paint is drying, and it starts to clump up, leaving little spots where it's showing that it was drying while you were still working. The drying retardant keeps this from happening (though you have to be a little more careful that you don't allow it to bleed, as if it's too runny it will do that). Try it out, it may help!

I've never heard of that before, didn't know it existed. I've always just used water to try to thin the paint, then I always end up thinning it too much for the color to cover at all.

I'll look into that, thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 10:19 am

OK... starting with the power fist.

You can get smoother blends by thinning the paint further. The "flecks" is either older paint or not thinned enough.

Starting lighter colors and moving to dark colors will also make this transition smoother. You'll be surprised. Start a second fist with a white base coat. I'd put several thinned layers (milk consistency for base coats) until you achieve good uniform color. Then you thin yellow apply several layers moving away from the areas you want white. When I say thin for this, I mean like piss water thin. Just the slightest hint of yellow left in it. Maybe 1 drop paint to 10 or 15 of water. Seriously, you can always apply more layers. When you apply a layer you dip your brush into the thinned paint the touch the brush tip to a paper towel to leach off the excess water. Then apply your layer. This is not a wash. I'm expecting that you will apply 5 to 7 layers of very thin yellow to build up color. Maybe more. In between layers hit it with a hair dryer to make sure it is fully dry before the next. You'll start to move pretty quickly. Then move to your oranges... then reds. I think you'll be pretty happy with the results. The natural thinned paint provides a filter that will blend your paints.

I truly believe there may be 3 things at work on the aquila for quality. (or any detail)

1) always do a base coat over the detail. With keeping the same base you risk that is isn't a proper base for the color you wish to work up to. For me, under white it is grey. Under "bone" it is brown. 1 or 2 layers is not bad once you get...

2) motor skill. It takes time to get you hand doing what you want it to do. practice, practice. Practice where you want highlights to go.

3) Maybe brush quality(?). If you have a brush that can't hold a tip you will never get a straight line.

I will swear my life on Windsor and Newton Series 7 (regular or miniature brushes). They can be purchased from Dick Blick on line for about 10.50 each. You need a number 1 (Regular series 7 for me), 0 miniature and a 000 miniature. Buy some brush cleaner and conditioner and these brushes could last 5 years with proper care. I'd paint with 50 cent a jar craft paints before giving up my brushes. Truly a worthy investment. Bigger brushes for drybrushing etc can go cheaper from the local art store.

I do about 90% of my work with a number 1 before scaling down for detail work.
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 10:21 am

bojesphob1 wrote:
The only thing I can help with, Caelyn, that John hasn't addressed is the speckle/clumpiness of your blending for the powerfist. One thing I have found that helps when doing blending (and this is not the end all be all), is to get the drying retardant from Reaper paints, and mix in a small amount to the colors that you want to blend. I think what's happening is that while you're doing the blending, your paint is drying, and it starts to clump up, leaving little spots where it's showing that it was drying while you were still working. The drying retardant keeps this from happening (though you have to be a little more careful that you don't allow it to bleed, as if it's too runny it will do that). Try it out, it may help!

Probably not a bad suggestion if you want to 'wet blend' your stuff. I wouldn't use with the technique I suggested above. Retarder can also be purchased by Liquitex at a Hobby Lobby in the acrylic store. Other mediums can help your painting as well.

www.brushthralls.com has some great tutorials on mediums.
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CaelynTek
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PostSubject: Re: The new Terminator I don't like WIP   The new Terminator I don't like WIP EmptyMon Aug 24, 2009 10:24 am

John Gemrich wrote:
OK... starting with the power fist.

You can get smoother blends by thinning the paint further. The "flecks" is either older paint or not thinned enough.

Starting lighter colors and moving to dark colors will also make this transition smoother. You'll be surprised. Start a second fist with a white base coat. I'd put several thinned layers (milk consistency for base coats) until you achieve good uniform color. Then you thin yellow apply several layers moving away from the areas you want white. When I say thin for this, I mean like piss water thin. Just the slightest hint of yellow left in it. Maybe 1 drop paint to 10 or 15 of water. Seriously, you can always apply more layers. When you apply a layer you dip your brush into the thinned paint the touch the brush tip to a paper towel to leach off the excess water. Then apply your layer. This is not a wash. I'm expecting that you will apply 5 to 7 layers of very thin yellow to build up color. Maybe more. In between layers hit it with a hair dryer to make sure it is fully dry before the next. You'll start to move pretty quickly. Then move to your oranges... then reds. I think you'll be pretty happy with the results. The natural thinned paint provides a filter that will blend your paints.

I truly believe there may be 3 things at work on the aquila for quality. (or any detail)

1) always do a base coat over the detail. With keeping the same base you risk that is isn't a proper base for the color you wish to work up to. For me, under white it is grey. Under "bone" it is brown. 1 or 2 layers is not bad once you get...

2) motor skill. It takes time to get you hand doing what you want it to do. practice, practice. Practice where you want highlights to go.

3) Maybe brush quality(?). If you have a brush that can't hold a tip you will never get a straight line.

I will swear my life on Windsor and Newton Series 7 (regular or miniature brushes). They can be purchased from Dick Blick on line for about 10.50 each. You need a number 1 (Regular series 7 for me), 0 miniature and a 000 miniature. Buy some brush cleaner and conditioner and these brushes could last 5 years with proper care. I'd paint with 50 cent a jar craft paints before giving up my brushes. Truly a worthy investment. Bigger brushes for drybrushing etc can go cheaper from the local art store.

I do about 90% of my work with a number 1 before scaling down for detail work.

Thanks John, I've seriously never thought of doing so many layers with really thin paint. I always thought over thinning paint was a bad thing. I'll give that a try.

I'll also look into brushes.

My 20/0 brush was about 10 bucks, but on sale for 5. It's lasting longer than my other cheap liner brushes, but it's already starting to go.

I'll look into your recommendations.
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