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Makari
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PostSubject: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:50 pm

So there is the Tourney at Acme this weekend and I know what I want to take but I am playing around with some other lists... I can almost fit a company of marines in 1850.

it comes out to be 1848


Space Marine Captain Lightning Claw, Storm Bolter
10 Space Marines Tactical Squad Multi Melta, Flamer
10 Space Marines Tactical Squad Multi Melta, Flamer
10 Space Marines Tactical Squad Multi Melta, Flamer
10 Space Marines Tactical Squad Heavy Bolter, Flamer
10 Space Marines Tactical Squad Heavy Bolter, Flamer
5 Space Marines Tactical Squad
10 Space Marine Assault Squad Lightning Claw,
10 Space Marine Assault Squad Lightning Claw,
5 Space Marine Devastator Squad 4 Missle Launchers
5 Space Marine Devastator Squad 4 Lascannons

Any comments, conerns?

I am not to thrilled about the lack of tankage but eh I can live without maybe but I'd like to playtest my list some before sunday.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:02 pm

Plenty of anti tank/horde. The lack of mobility is the only concern I see. Foot sloggin' to objectives could hurt you. Even a pod or 2 could help.

Is it that you have no tankage or just don't want to use them?
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:26 pm

I agree w/ HoD. I think your mobility is bad. If I had a couple LR's or Vindicators I'm just sitting back and "softening" your squads up...first pie plate is your Dev w/ Las cannon. If I was playing crons with 2 Mono's the only threat is the Dev squads.

I'd probably look to bring my own troops into HTH with them or your Dev teams.

I think a drop pods is a good threat that your opponent needs to consider. You can buy DPs or Rhinos for your assault marines for free by dumping your jump pack. You could deploy the rhinos empty then embark you MM squads into them on your turn 1 to give some mobility. You really give up some of the reason for the Assault marines though.

Back to your list as is. The side light is you negate a lot of points your opponent may spend on anti armor but you are vulnerable to blast templates.

I'd be happy to play you. Maybe Thr evening?
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:47 pm

Hehe, methinks you just wanted to see how much of a company you could fit in an 1850.

Agreed with the mobility issue. You just need more of it..at least 1 rhino or something to move your boys around. Or fleet. Though I assume using Shrike would cost more than your captain does.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:51 pm

I like it when people go for infantry lists. I hate it when people to all tank crazy... well hate is a strong word.. lets say I'm disappointed when people have every model inside a tank at the start. Too many tanks on the board just looks bad to me. I like seeing units of infantry spread out across the board. Probably a side effect of my Rogue Trader days.

Though I do agree... you need some mobility. No more than two tanks or troop carriers, to get your forward troops to the objectives.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:21 pm

I think you should run that list just like it is.

It'll mess with people. And who the hell has enough guns to kill 100 marines? Nobody.
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:31 pm

As far as not having the models for tanks that is defintely not the case having 80% of 1st company all of 2nd company, 60%ish 3rd company and 50+% of 10th company in space Marines with extra to spare...

I agree I need mobility and my first thought was to try and include the rhinos for each squad but I didn't have the points...

I was seeing if a company could fit and win so maybe i'll test it out for another tourney.

But any suggestions keep it coming.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:36 pm

Are you able to fit Shrike if you dump the captain? I can't remember how much he's worth
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 4:04 pm

I am trying to keep the special characters out mainly because of cost in points, that and I don't want to "specialize" too much.

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:49 pm

I also think if you ran into a dual lash/oblit spam list, you would have some serious problems.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:50 am

I think this list is pretty good. I like the saturation. I dont believe duel lash (or many other lists ftm) is going to have the firepower to duel with this. This lists laughs at 4 oblits, even lashed.

I don't agree on adding "one or two" vehicles though, that would be crazy to me. Right now your forcing your opponent to fire lascannons at marines, which is good. One rhino does nothing except give one of my vendettas a target.

Shrike sounds awesome, will give your army that extra edge, though if your going fleet, better give yourself some punch for when you get there.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:01 am

[quote="archite666"]I think this list is pretty good. I like the saturation. I dont believe duel lash (or many other lists ftm) is going to have the firepower to duel with this. This lists laughs at 4 oblits, even lashed.[quote]

Dude, you're crazy! I would eat this list up with my dual lash and 9 oblit spam. With that many marines and no psychic hood, you could lash those squads together so close that the oblits couldn't miss with 9 plasma cannon shots. Have you ever played an experienced lash list? 'cause if you have you wouldn't make that comment. This is a lash/oblit's wet dream list. Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:22 am

I like the list because it's not typical and I think it could be competitive, but it does have some short comings. I do think it would struggle against lash/oblit spam, Imperial Guard, and lith spam, but I'm curious how you plan to play it? Is it something like rushing 65 power armored marines down your throat supported by the devastators. Whats the plan? Hope you post some battle reports also.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:21 pm

[quote="HAND OF DUME"][quote="archite666"]I think this list is pretty good. I like the saturation. I dont believe duel lash (or many other lists ftm) is going to have the firepower to duel with this. This lists laughs at 4 oblits, even lashed.
Quote :


Dude, you're crazy! I would eat this list up with my dual lash and 9 oblit spam. With that many marines and no psychic hood, you could lash those squads together so close that the oblits couldn't miss with 9 plasma cannon shots. Have you ever played an experienced lash list? 'cause if you have you wouldn't make that comment. This is a lash/oblit's wet dream list. Twisted Evil

Yes I have played against some great duel lash lists. They are becomming less and less as mech hits the scene. 9 oblits leaves you little room for other things. I won't argue the fine points of lash. I believe "lashs wet dream" would be something with elite troops foot slogging, almost like another lash list.

He has a few things going for him though against lash. 1) The shear amount of space marines running toward you. 2) The survivers of of lash will still be pressing forward and being an nuisance.

I personally wouldnt worry about most gimic lists though. Iv always been a fan of the "x factor" I could argue that though lash might be well matched against this list, this list is well matched vs mechdar, which is what seems to be dominating tournments right there.

Another point I bring up is the line of sight requirement for lash. With this many bodies and a healthy amount of terrain(25% one hopes) you have a good shot of outmaning lash.

Don't get me wrong, in a KP mission against lash it aint looking good. I'm a mech guard player, I think I play really well. I think my list is really well. Against a mechdar player? I'm a pile of molten slag. I do extremly well in the tournament scene. It requires alot of learning and a bit of luck. But against that mech list, i'm done. No way around it. So I think we all have our nemisis. Which is pretty much the nature of the game. There really are no "4 corner lists" anymore. Everyones got an achilles heel.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:51 pm

Even against mech lists, lash lists still work great. You blast the vechiles open with the oblits and lash the occupants.

The shear amount of marines charging me would be to my benefit as I run 4 units of plague marines (2 meltas in 3 and 2 plasma in the other, ie short range) and a unit of 'zerkers to mop up. Running towards me actually helps me out, I won't have to lash you forward. You take out the 2 units of havocs and all you have left is a few h-bolters, flamers and meltas. I use my rhinos to carry everything forward to meet you head on and as moving cover for the princes.

Mech Eldar aren't dominating the tourney scene anymore. Talking with our chapter master, Kevin Kirby, who was participating in the 'ard boyz finals, orks mixed with a little I.G. is what's dominating and the winner of Adepticon was lash chaos.

Most terrain still doesn't block enough line of sight, remember no cover save for lash. All I need is to see a little.

I do agree though that there are no "win all" lists.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:22 pm

Mech IG won ard boys as I understand.

I know how lash works, but things like buildings in the center of the table can play a big part is staying away from it.

Ard boys ist an exact measure of the entire tournament scene. I judged the first round at specialties games here in san angelo and judged second round in callen texas.

No elder at the first round, Shooty marines took first.
Elder won second round.

Thats part of the reason i'm a fan of the "X factor" Look at the 5th placer for ard boys. He was a weird vanilla list with things like thunder cannon.

There is a certain skill to list ratio I believe in. Essentially the cutter lists, like lash, various mech lists, nidzilla are great when in the hands of evenly matched opponents. But true winners usually are greatly skilled players with lists that pack alot of things most players would consider "odd" but these choices simply require alot of skill to use their full potential. Like wise, the same player using a cutter list would only do average because of the limited capabilities of the list.

For instance. Lash is very good against any footslogging army. You can teach anyone the gist of the list in like 10 minutes. Not the finest points, but well enough to beat players of the same caliber most of the time. However the lists that I see do above average are always extremly odd and at first glance look like they were built by someone with no idea on how to play the game. In the hands of the normal joe, these lists would get stomped. In the hands of the master that built them, they win tournaments.

The guy that took first round here was a shooty marine player using a marneus calger. He beat a well made mech guard player, a lash, and a ork list, max points on first two games and like a minor on the last, only because the ork player intentionally turtled in order to not give this guy max points.

The list that I saw that took 5th at ard boys was even weirder, he had a thunder cannon for god sakes.

Also something can be said for the simple ways that cutter lists are shut down. Its no surprise to me that IG won, I havent seen the list yet but the ability to take a board wide phychic hood, with mystics and a PBS for orks noobs and other "unit of awesome" lists just seems a really easy way to cut down most lists with investing minimal points. Something like <300 pts in a 2500 to put a knife in the side of 75% of lists out there is unreal.

Id also like to go into the huge gap in metagame from 2500 to 1850. The smaller the points the much more cut throat certain "luxeries" become. And you also have armies with certain "point thresholds" but i'll save that for another time. I apolagise for the grammer and/or spelling but its late, Il correct later.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:24 am

now under a 2500 point list i can get the 2nd company for sure in there!!!
can't wait for the next ard boyz!!!

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:20 am

archite666:
Quote :
Its no surprise to me that IG won, I havent seen the list yet


They have the list posted on BoLS.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:12 pm

Thank you sir.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Fri Sep 25, 2009 1:02 pm

After giving it some more thought I made the changes below.

Total 1820 72 Models

115 1 Chaplain
Jump Pack
170 10 Tactical Squad Marines
Flamer, Heavy Bolter
170 10 Tactical Squad Marines
Flamer, Heavy Bolter
170 10 Tactical Squad Marines
Flamer, Multi-melta
170 10 Tactical Squad Marines
Flamer, Multi-melta
215 10 Assault squad
Power Weapon, Flamer
215 10 Assault squad
Power Weapon, Flamer
270 5 Devastator Squad
4 Lascannons
190 5 Devastator Squad
4 Missile Launchers
135 1 Ironclad Dreadnought

I still got 30 points to go and I am going to work more on it tonight any ideas?

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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Marine List   Today at 6:47 pm

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