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 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!

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Sneezypanda
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PostSubject: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:57 am

Hello everyone! This is my fist attempt at a list with the new codex at this level. I simply took the units that I wanted to take and then edited it to a 1850 list, so here it is;

HQ:
(Wanted to include a Tyranid Prime or a Hive Tyrant, but I ran out of points. The Parasite seems like a lot of fun! He will be Traveling with the Gargoyles. Any suggestions of what to get rid of to include a Tyrant or Prime would be much appreciated!)

Parasite of Mortex- 160

Elites:
(I want to try Venomthropes out before I make a decision if they are good are not, but I have a feeling they will have add a lot of synergy to the list)

3x Zoanthropes- 180

2x Venomthropes- 110

Troops:
(The Tervigons look a little too expensive, although all the upgrades are pretty sound choices, I took a unit of spine gaunts because I don't have enough fleshborers and it looks like I never will. But the spine gaunts are pretty good from what I have seen so far)

Tervigon- 200
Cluster Spines
scything talons
Catalyst
adrenal glands
toxin sacs

Tervigon- 200
Cluster Spines
scything talons
Catalyst
adrenal glands
toxin sacs

29x Termagants- 145

30x Spinegaunts- 180

Fast Attack:
(Pretty self explanatory, flying around with the Parasite and will be my flanking unit)

20x Gargoyles- 120

20x Gargoyles- 120

Heavy Support:
(Wanted a second Mawloc, but i didn't fit in the point range. He appears to be a pretty good anti-tank option though, i'm considering him to as a potential tank buster. The Tyrannofex has so much shtlk on him, I am still having trouble figuring out all what he has! But he will be one of the main anti-tank units)
Mawloc-170

Tyrannofex- 265
Rupture Cannon

1850

This is partially what I have and what I want. I am in the process of making the Tervigons, Parasite of Mortex, and Tyrannofex. I need to buy some more gaunts for the Tervigons, another two Zoanthropes, another Veomthrope, and I have no gargoyles currently.

The Set up is pretty easy to figure out, the swarm moves forward(Tervigons, Termagants, Spinegaunts, Venomthropes, and Zoanthropes) While the Mawloc causes general disruption and the gargoyles and Tyrannofex will fly/walk about the flanks(not together of course, but I want the Tyrannofex seperate from the swarm)

I just now forgot that i wanted to include the deathleaper! shtlk! Oh well, if anyone sees anything that I could get rid of for the death leaper let me know.

Critique is encouraged! Thank you in advance!
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:21 am

Quote :
Tervigon- 200
Cluster Spines
scything talons
Catalyst
adrenal glands
toxin sacs

Tervigon- 200
Cluster Spines
scything talons
Catalyst
adrenal glands
toxin sacs

29x Termagants- 145

30x Spinegaunts- 180

OK... it'll be tough to critique b/c I believe in "playing" a list to see how theories work. Unit size, shielding... common opponents all play into how a list works. But I've been playing with some #'s and I'd like to see what other folks think.

A) Spinefist on gaunts - I don't get this.... PLEASE HELP ME.
Since you only get the unmodified Attack stat as the line are these even worth the 1pt you pay? Essentially picking up twin linked and down 1 in STR.

30 Spineguant shots. 15 hit. + 7.5 on rerolls to hit. = 22.5 hits
Str 3 on MEQ = 7.42 wounds
MEQ save 66% of those for 2.44 dead speez maureens.

30 Flesh borer shots. 15 hit
50% wound a MEQ on STR 4 = 7.5 wounds
MEQ save 66% of these for 2.47 dead maureens.

Both weapons are AP 5.... So what am I missing in this equation that would warrent paying 1pt a model?

For the 1 pt I'd pick up the spike rifle and the additional 6" of firing.
Sure you only have 1 to 2 dead maureens but you may get an extra round of firing.


Tervigon comments:
The Good.
Tough with a lot of wounds
Synapse creature to move in with your swarms keeping them on task.
Gives your gaunts w/in 6" counterattack.

Mediocre
They spawn termagaunts but not for long. On 3d6 you will roll a double 42% of the time. In 2 rounds make that 84% chance and in 3 rounds that is 100% chance.

With an average number spawned of 10/11 you will make out at 30 Termaguants. But most likely will end up with 10 or 20.

Psychic powers. Nothing wows me in the list but Catalyst for 15 pts.

The Bad

As an MC they will never receive a cover save from your troops.
If they die, each unit of Termagaunts within 6 inches will take 10/11 hits, 5 wounds and 4/5 dead guants.

So if cluster up your gaunts w/ your tervigons their is a change you "overlap" your death knell range of your tervigons. Even if you catch 2 units of gaunts that is 9 dead guants. You spawned 10 to 20. meh...

This is one I'd like to see in play to understand how difficult these guys are to take down when under concentrated fire.


Critique on the list.
Depending on how hard/easy it may be to lose your Tervigons, I think you may be Synapse light in the list. The zoanthropes will be holding back I assume. I'd add some warriors for sure.

The tyrannofex and Mawloc both need the synapse as well. I'd consider a Trygon Prime to DS in there. That give 18 wounds of Synapse in and around potential enemy lines/etc.

Let us know how the list plays.
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Sneezypanda
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:50 am

I did state that I do not have enough fleshborers, i threw them in there to keep it legal because I don't think I will ever get enough fleshborers to replace their fists.

THe Tyrannofex will be kinda walking around the battlefield by himself so he will either be supported by the Parasite of Mortex or the swarm Snapyse.

The mawloc? Eh? does he really need synapse? I mean, he is going to be burrowing and leaving and re-burrowing. But like I said I haven't even tried this list out yet, but thank you for the critique. I put this list on 3 different sites, and your the first to comment :p
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:19 pm

Tha'ts cuz John is the man. When you get to know him, you will know why.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:43 pm

Sneezypanda wrote:
I did state that I do not have enough fleshborers, i threw them in there to keep it legal because I don't think I will ever get enough fleshborers to replace their fists.

I read you don't have enough gaunts w/ FB but I my point on Spinegaunts is really a general question to the forum.. "why would you spend the points on them?" I'm worried there is some benefit that perhaps I am overlooking.

The mawloc is subject to a leadership test if they are out of synapse range. So if you plan to go back and deepstrike again you will need to plan on passing your leadership test at the beginning of your movment phase to burrow back underground (66% chance of success). Otherwise they pick up "Rage" which isn't necessarily a bad thing if you have some tasty targets.

Once again, having never played nids I'm not sure if this is a concern or not.

I'm not sure I like burrowing the Mawloc and Reappearing as a strategy b/c you remove a pretty sizeable monster for 1 round each time you do.

Round 1: DS in (w/ Scatter)... Str 6 AP 2 blast.
However, as you cannot assault in the turn you DS you don't get a round of HTH with any units.

Round 2: Burrow in Movement Phase

Round 3: DS in again. (with scatter).

In a 5 round game if you pop and go every round you will DS in rd 1,3,5. At most you are getting 3 Str6 AP2 large blasts for 170 pts even if all of them are on target. I'm just thinking that you can use the Mawloc to hold big units in place that survive the initial attack.

I certainly like his ability to burrow...but I see it as more useful to pop up under a unit of troops on the last round and push them off of an objective marker or the like.

Again, take this all with a grain of salt as I haven't played with any of the new units. It is all conjecture for me.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:55 pm

I always forget that I need to stay within synapse and you have to pass a test if they are out of it in the movement phase. So I suppose I will need some synapse. I suppose that is what the Parasite of Mortex will also be doing.

What would you suggest I do to get more synapse? Like what should I add/drop?
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:19 pm

Sneezypanda wrote:
I always forget that I need to stay within synapse and you have to pass a test if they are out of it in the movement phase. So I suppose I will need some synapse. I suppose that is what the Parasite of Mortex will also be doing.

What would you suggest I do to get more synapse? Like what should I add/drop?


So if you DS in too far away from Synapse you are on your own for a round or two if you fail your leadership check. Not really that bad with Feed, assuming you are near the enemy anyway.

But if you want to be ducking and moving w/ your mawloc I think you want some synapse close.

I'm thinking a Mycetic spore w/ some warriors near where you'd like to DS. That brings some range to bear near to soften up some targets. Minimum cost is 140 pts. (3 warriors and a spore).
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:59 pm

Put your zoanthropes in spore pods to get them in close. Against mech armies you'll have to to be effective.

As far as the math hammer John listed, it's not my thing (no offense John), but playtesting, playtesting and more playtesting will tell you truley how this will run, then edit accordingly.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:03 pm

John Gemrich wrote:
Round 1: DS in (w/ Scatter)... Str 6 AP 2 blast.
However, as you cannot assault in the turn you DS you don't get a round of HTH with any units.

Round 2: Burrow in Movement Phase

Round 3: DS in again. (with scatter).

Am I missing something? How can the Mawloc DS in on the first turn? I'm not seeing anything in the special rules for the creature about it ... once it reburrows, it'll automatically reappear on the next turn, but that's still a minimum one turn delay before it shows up.

With regard to spinefists on Termagants, I would say that they aren't worth the points. They're extra points (which can add up for a lot of Gaunts) for negligible gain. Even spike rifles don't seem to be worth the extra point. I would prefer to just keep the Gaunts cheap and put the points somewhere else.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:19 pm

Check out this it may help a bit for making some decisions!

I like these guys!

About 30mins long so be pateint!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK9dLhwKohw
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:40 am

I'm trying to avoid the Spore Pods until I can find a way to model them correctly.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:01 am

Chethrok_Bloodfist wrote:
John Gemrich wrote:
Round 1: DS in (w/ Scatter)... Str 6 AP 2 blast.
However, as you cannot assault in the turn you DS you don't get a round of HTH with any units.

Round 2: Burrow in Movement Phase

Round 3: DS in again. (with scatter).

Am I missing something? How can the Mawloc DS in on the first turn? I'm not seeing anything in the special rules for the creature about it ... once it reburrows, it'll automatically reappear on the next turn, but that's still a minimum one turn delay before it shows up.

With regard to spinefists on Termagants, I would say that they aren't worth the points. They're extra points (which can add up for a lot of Gaunts) for negligible gain. Even spike rifles don't seem to be worth the extra point. I would prefer to just keep the Gaunts cheap and put the points somewhere else.

You are correct... they deploy from DS. just start counting 1 from the turn they arrive.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:01 am

Sneezypanda wrote:
I'm trying to avoid the Spore Pods until I can find a way to model them correctly.

Check Dakka dakka, they have a few good ideas. There's even a toy out there (can't remember the name) that has a "egg" that it comes in that looks great when painted. It costs about 10.00. It's on dakka also.
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PostSubject: Re: 1850 Tyranid Swarm list, advice needed!   Today at 2:46 pm

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