A friendly group of people looking to share their Hobby!!!
 
HomeFAQSearchRegisterMemberlistUsergroupsLog in

Share | 
 

 Best Bang for Buck

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
Marc
Fantasy Moderator


Posts : 2428
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Milford

PostSubject: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:23 am

Not to derail the DH vs WH topic (both are naff in the overall scheme of 40k btw) I'd like to ask you lot which you thought was the best point valued model in the game.

My top 3 in no particular order..

- Chaos Terminator [35pts] with CombiMelta upgrade
- Kroot [7pts] basic
- Battle Sister [11pts] basic

..and be prepared to defend your choice Wink
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com/
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:51 am

Quote :
both are naff in the overall scheme of 40k btw

Very well said.

My top 3 in no order

-Genestealer (I like 'em naked)
-Chaos Terminator (30 points... i mean... come on, ridiculous)
-Regular Chaos Marine (now that they have a bolter, bolt pistol AND a close combat weapon)

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
FrostWolf
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1119
Join date : 2007-09-09
Location : lost somewhere in my own mind

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:00 pm

ok lets talk then about kroot lets see only gain cover when in forest only see through better in forests.......

as for my top i still say my tau commander is the best(have to look up what all I give him and not relly feeling like it right now) followed by mephiston and dante(no real order either myslef just my thoughs) all of which rule in any battle I fight even when my tau get into close combat the commander still comes out alive
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Rhino-182
Initiate
Initiate


Posts : 372
Join date : 2007-09-05
Location : Mason, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:42 pm

Quote :
I like 'em naked

naughty, naughty

i know... i'm imature
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:25 pm

Yup, and it's immature Smile

What does your top three look like Ryan?

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
Rhino-182
Initiate
Initiate


Posts : 372
Join date : 2007-09-05
Location : Mason, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:31 pm

chaos termie-30 (cheaper than a regular, but better... common' GW)
rhino-50 (a quick way to get 10 guys across the field for cheap)
fire warrior-12 (best standared infantry weapon in the game, can also have markerlights)
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:40 pm

Rhinos are 35 in the new marine books Smile The future is bright (well cheap) for your namesake ryan!

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
Marc
Fantasy Moderator


Posts : 2428
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Milford

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:32 pm

c'mon Bruce.. your Tau Shas'o has survived every close combat Suspect

We're gonna be playing so many games this month bud Laughing
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com/
FrostWolf
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1119
Join date : 2007-09-09
Location : lost somewhere in my own mind

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 5:51 pm

ok he has not surived being in cb with 30-50 power weopen squad a choas guy used.......but they do not excist anymore(also he survies well enough though most times not due to the fact that he is by himself i almost always get in huge cbs when that accures
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:44 pm

I'm pretty sure the run of the mill hidden power fist will rock the hell out of him.

Actually I can guarantee it.

You are out of it if you think he is actually good at surviving close combat. Perhaps you have gotten lucky a few times and had him do something crazy. But you can't honestly think he is good in close combat! Or rely on it...

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
FrostWolf
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1119
Join date : 2007-09-09
Location : lost somewhere in my own mind

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:14 pm

I have beaten your nice fancy hidden power fist. And no I am not crazy, i know what I am talking about it has been more than a few times
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Mon Nov 26, 2007 8:01 pm

you've never played me.

And no, you won't beat a hidden power fist.

8 marines, 1 with a hidden power fist will beat a crisis suit HQ 99% of the time. We can get John to math hammer it if you want.

You wont deny it is not luck though?

Statistically he has seriously next to 0% chance of beathing a hidden power fist squad. Even if you make said squad similar in points.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
Nathan
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1134
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 25
Location : Mason, or Dayton, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:07 pm

All right time for me to step in. Bruce here neglects to mention his "fully-kitted HQ" also consists of bodyguards, shield drones (6) plasma, etc. And the hidden powerfist will not usually make it into close combat with his leader (sneaky bastard). Also when Bruce talks about his HQ winning combats it is rarely one on one (or one on squad as would be the case with mr. hidden PF). This is either due to full kit (see above) or Bruce taking the IG method (you get assaulted, counter-assault with everything in range and drown the enemy in hits). There I've said my peace.

NO MORE FUEDS!!!!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
FrostWolf
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1119
Join date : 2007-09-09
Location : lost somewhere in my own mind

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:46 pm

If you want to kill this then fine ill bite. No it is not luck....thats number 1. 2 you need to fight some tau like I use in close combat and see what they relly do(Statistics do not matter on something like this). 3 experaince has shown even when the whole thing(yes a 8 man has made it all the way to me) I have killed it in cb again as nathan pointed out only 1 phase is my HQ squad by itself(only loses 1,2 drones to it so no big deal there either). and last but not least 3 you all still miss everything i point out and ignore it....why is that well probably becouse you all think I am crazy and do not know what I am sayaing(wait I am crazy but I do know what I am saying) hmmmmmm lets see what was it oh yea thats right I have survided worse with just my command squad(reaver jet bike squad, space marine jump squad, chozen, nugle deamon prince at 1 wound left, bikes........all in 1 game) now I do have to admit that was aganist people who have less game time than you but still.....it is great proof
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:04 pm

Let us see you HQ, I know for a fact it won't be good in close combat unless it is Farsight.

Oh, and stats DO matter in something like this.

Nathan: The argument was, that his HQ is good in close combat, not that he can shoot up things before they get there. Tau ARE good at that part.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
Nathan
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1134
Join date : 2007-08-25
Age : 25
Location : Mason, or Dayton, Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:33 pm

I'm just saying things don't usually make it to close combat with Bruce's guy unless something screwey happens.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:43 pm

yup, i was just pointing out the fact that we were discussing how a Tau crisis HQ cannot be good in close combat. He can survive being hit a few times (shield drones/meat shields), but he really cannot be good.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
FrostWolf
Veteran Sergeant
Veteran Sergeant


Posts : 1119
Join date : 2007-09-09
Location : lost somewhere in my own mind

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:12 pm

missed what I said again?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:36 pm

Erm... no

Quote :
you all still miss everything i point out and ignore it

Ok so let me see

Quote :
you need to fight some tau like I use in close combat and see what they relly do(Statistics do not matter on something like this).

Yes they do, as they do in all of 40k. A crisis suit in close combat is terrible. Even with shield drones and other models to soak up casualties.

Quote :
experaince has shown even when the whole thing(yes a 8 man has made it all the way to me) I have killed it in cb again as nathan pointed out only 1 phase is my HQ squad by itself(only loses 1,2 drones to it so no big deal there either).

I don't know what kind of games you play, but this should never happen unless you play a moron, with his dice weighted to show 1's and 2's and weighted dice of your own to show 6's.

Quote :
it is great proof

No it's not... It's either lies or statistical miracles.

So if by ignored you mean I didn't agree with you then I guess I did ignore you. You can't offer luck as proof or fact. Unless you profess that your HQ is somehow mysteriously imbued with the ability to win close combats despite it being very difficult for him statistically.

Oh and this one

Quote :
reaver jet bike squad, space marine jump squad, chozen, nugle deamon prince at 1 wound left, bikes........all in 1 game

First, what kind of game were you kiddies playing that allowed that all on to one board.

Second, did they all rolls misses for everything and always assault you in cover and always choose not to target your character and not know the rules and equip all of the units badly?

Either give it up or post your unit so that we can set it against something and show you with facts how bad it is in close combat....PLEASE... so that we can be done with this once and for all!

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
JMarv
The MathHammer


Posts : 914
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Evendale, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:28 pm

Your flame war has drawn the interest of the Mathammer. Please post your HQ unit load out so I can analyze the situation. If not I will try to assume a reasonable load out with 6 shield drones against a similar point value marine squad with powerfist.

Also, I think I need to work on getting an icon of a big hammer covered in mathematical equations. I should work on that.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:16 am

Quote :
Your flame war has drawn the interest of the Mathammer.

uh-oh now it's on. Please put your money where you mouth is.

I can already tell you how it will go. Shield drones prevent the unit from dying quickly, but in return the crisis suits do next to nothing. Rinse + repeat until Tau unit dies.

Plus if they are as good as you say (citing from you example even) they should be facing a power fisted assault squad.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
CJ
Captain
Captain


Posts : 2334
Join date : 2007-08-20
Age : 41
Location : Harrison OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:16 am

I'm with Matt with this one....unless your using one of the Special characters......your going to get owned. You have a better chance having a Broadside Battlesuit go up against a powerfist. At least they have a 2+ save.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
JMarv
The MathHammer


Posts : 914
Join date : 2007-08-20
Location : Evendale, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:20 am

Yes, preliminary calculations involving seven basic marines and a sargeant armed with the power fist against a Shas O with two shas'vre and 6 shield drones go something like this:
Turn 1 - Marines kill 4.25 shield drones even after their invulnerable saves, shield drone attacks plus crisis suits kill 1.21 marines. We'll round this down to 4 and 1 kills respectively.

Turn 2 - Marines kill remaining 2 shield drones, Tau kill one more marine

Turn 3 - Regular Marines do .55 wounds to the bodygaurds, the tau kill one marine (.88 wounds rounding up) and the powerfist does 1.66 wounds. This is interesting to note that on average at least one suit will die, where over 50% of the time the powerfist will get two wounds in, which if designated to the shas'vre, will kill both of them and the shas'o will get a 50% chance of dying if he fails an invulnerable save.

Turn 4 - Assuming only one shas'vre death previously, the marines kill the remaining bodygaurd and lose one of their own

Turn 5, same but with the Shas'O. The marine squad will have lost 5 regular marines in comparison to the entire tau squad.

It is also interesting to note that assuming a basic layout for the HQ squad it comes in at 350 pts compared to 150 for the marines. The biggest advantage of the marines is that they Tau have nothing that negates armor saves, and the marines have a weapon that kills Crisis suits with one wound. If the shas'vre are also given shield generators the battle lasts one more turn, but now that unit is close to 400 pts. It is hard to imagine a situation where the marines are not extremely in favor in close combat even at dramatically lower points values.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Scav
Initiate
Initiate


Posts : 370
Join date : 2007-09-19
Age : 27

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:11 pm

chaos termie - 30

i would have to say the average kiss-wielding harlequin - 24 pts

fire dragon - 16 pts for a S8 ap 1 and BS 4 Melta...
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Matt
CAG Founder


Posts : 3552
Join date : 2007-08-19
Location : Cincinnati, OH

PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:42 pm

fire dragons are awesome. Very awesome. Slap them in a holo-falcon and it just gets gross.

thanks for laying down the hammer John. That isn't even an assault squad or anything remotely nasty (even regular marines are only considered survivable in close combat, not necessarily deadly)

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cincycag.forumotion.com
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Best Bang for Buck   Today at 5:15 pm

Back to top Go down
 
Best Bang for Buck
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Kenny Bobien-The Light (Bang The Drum Mixes)
» Re Brutal gang bang on hvh luastoned ! :)
» Planet J:Captain Buck Tanner and the Space Clowns from Hades
» The Whole Sha-bang!
» Chris Da Closer, Jimm Starr, and Lady J from La Kalle are "CONNECTING THE STREETS" with Dj Rob-Lo & Dj Buck

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
CAG :: Warhammer 40k :: 40k General Discussion-
Jump to: