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 Is it just me...

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Elonna
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PostSubject: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:01 pm

or is the Lizardmen army broke?

Geesh, I just bought the army book today for my son and I was flipping through it at lunch. It seems nearly impossible to beat, if they have a slann priest, an Engine of the Gods and a skink priest...their magic would seem to be unstoppable?

And nearly all of their units have at least toughness 4 not counting the scaly skin.

Am I just crazy? (OK, I am but I mean am I misjudging the Lizardmen army?)

E
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kainthedragoonx
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:14 pm



It's all about risk reward against the Slann. Cupped Balls is stupid good, so you'll just have to accept that you are going to get punished in the magic phase. When I play against lizards, I just have to let some of his magic go. Dispell scrolls are where it's at, as you'll never even be close to the Slann's power dice potential.

It's a tough battle, but you can pull it off. The major key is to stop the game changing magic spells. You just have to know what those are and when to expect them.

Lizardmen are very much a tier one army.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:35 pm

Lizardmen got nerfed with the last edition of the rules. they can throw a lot of magic at you, but that can be good and bad now. If you look at their stat line, all their toughest warriors also have a low init.. That means that they will be striking last a lot of the time. They are still very competative as a list but not broken anymore. If you want to see broken, look at the Skaven book sometime.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:57 pm

Why is skaven broken?
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kainthedragoonx
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:04 pm


I still say Garret should have one 'Ard Boyz @East Side with his lizards. Stupid being asleep round one.


Crobar's just mad because of the WLC + 13th Spell. Razz


Skaven are generally given a bad name because of the magic phase presence and the shooting phase presence. They handle both phases really freaking well. And they're not totally worthless in CC either. There are some versions of the Skaven list that can do well without the player really knowing how to play the game. They are hard to deal with in certain situations, and in general are always going to be a tough match up. Large numbers, strong magic, strong shooting, and (at least for a while) great leadership really makes skaven pretty freaking amazing.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:16 pm

As far as skaven go, people tend to think that the heck pit Abom is over the top a little. I think it's fine. They aren't Vampire counts or Daemons from 7th. As for the slann, Ole Hypno toad isn't half as bad as he used to be. He's pretty much a big ole fat target ih an overpriced unit. The priest on the Steggy is just asking to get a cannonball to the face or ripped apart in combat by anything tougher than baby lotion.
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Elonna
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:23 pm

Well, maybe but when I played them at the tourney, they went first and magic devastated me, but I don't play very well yet so didn't think much of it until I really read the book and see what they can have. Elves got nothing on them in the magic arena.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:16 pm

Elonna wrote:
Well, maybe but when I played them at the tourney, they went first and magic devastated me, but I don't play very well yet so didn't think much of it until I really read the book and see what they can have. Elves got nothing on them in the magic arena.

Elves out-magicked? That just sounds wrong. Very Happy
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Evil Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:46 pm

If we are beating up on Skaven do they still have that bizzaro "ranks counting towards all leadership," bull? At least the Rattling-gun doesn't have the messed up rules it had in their last army book.

And I am shocked no one has mentioned the Skaven's scandalously cheep core troops (okay Kaine did say "Large Numbers" in passing). Looking at how the 8th set rules are set up this game is looking to be more towards rank and file now so probably top notch core and special infantry are where it is at. The Skaven specials never overtly worried me but that was in the previous book. 8-)

As for the Lizardmen they scared me more when the Stegadons would have 19 or so skinks on it's back and one skink shaman. One just HAD to bring Nagash to the battle back then.
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Evil Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:50 pm

Duckhunter wrote:
Elves out-magicked? That just sounds wrong. Very Happy
They did teach the High Elves magic back in the primordial dawn. Although frankly I would side with the High Elves. Their prettier to look at and the blood is by far superior to the pallet.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:12 am

What wasn't mentioned is that most armies have to choose to have a good magic phase, or a good shooting phase. The Skaven can do both even in low point lists. 8th edition rules moved Skaven up to the top of the list, beating out High Elves and Chaos Warriors for the first time since I can remember.
Under 8th edition rules, it isn't hard to out magic high elves, HE casters are expensive compared to some of the other races. Grey Seers are lvl 4 and come with 1d3 warpstone tokens, ( sorry if the name is off, I don't own the book) for 240 plus up to 100 in magic items. High Elves start at 265 plus 100 for items and now extra dice. I believe Orcs and Goblins and Lizardmen have cheeaper casters as well. With the new percentage system, it is easy to overwhelm High Elves in the magic phase. High Elves have Teclis though, he may very well be the best caster in the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:25 am

To be fair, Skaven could beat High Elves before the High Elves got their last book. Skaven have always been a little broken, 7th edition rules fixed some of it and their last book fixed some things and broke some others. 8th edition just makes the old broken Skaven look like whimps Smile. I could be jaded I guess, Skaven got better and my beloved Bretonnians got shafted but I do try to look at things from outside the box.
Back to what was originally posted, Lizzies I would say are tough still, if played by a good player, they are hard to beat. Chances are, you played one of them in the tourney. Regardless of what SH said, a skink priest on a steg is one tough cookie still, not as tough as they use to be, but still something to be respected.
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kainthedragoonx
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:03 am

I think we can argue the better army all day long, without really proving the point. Play the army you enjoy.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:10 pm

There is something we agree on Kain Smile. The game should be fun, pick an army, (or armies in my case) that you have fun with and play them.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:58 pm

Late in joining the thread (seeing as its almost already dead) but I would have to say as far as magic is concerned the lizardmen are probably the best at making sure they get spells off. I think the top tier army is WOC. At round two of ardboyz I went to the WOC army won and not by a close margin either.
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PostSubject: Re: Is it just me...   Wed May 04, 2011 6:16 pm

Just charge the Slaan unit with a herd of Gorbulls and flank him with a unit of Beastigors and make them flee. But thats all Beastmen are good for at the current Edition
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