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Rob
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PostSubject: black dragons   Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:22 pm

This is my black dragons list using the blood angels rules, please tear it apart.

Chaplain-jump pack
120


Honour guard-2 power weapons, standard bearer, sanguinary preist, champion
235
Death company- 10x jump packs
210
Veteran Assualt Squad- 7x, 3 power weapons, 2 meltaguns
265
Veteran Assualt Squad- 7x, 3 power weapons, 2 meltaguns
265
Assualt squad- 5x
140
Assualt squad- 5x
140
Ba'al- heavy Bolters
125
Ba'al- heavy Bolters
125
Ba'al- heavy Bolters
125
total- exactly 1750
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:00 am

I'd swap the Honour Guard for a pair of Tornado Speeders and kit out those Troop choices.
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:29 am

Yeah, where's the power fists? You gotta bring at least some.
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:07 pm

pointswise its either the landspeaders or the powerfists, but fluffwise its deffinatly the powerfist.

so Powerfists eh?

Chaplain-jump pack, plasma pistol
135


Death company- 10x jump packs
240


Veteran Assualt Squad- 8x, 3 thunder hammers, 2 meltaguns
335


Veteran Assualt Squad- 8x, 3 thunder hammers, 2 meltaguns
335
Assualt squad- 5x, powerfist

165


Assualt squad- 5x, powerfist
165


Ba'al- heavy Bolters
125


Ba'al- heavy Bolters
125


Ba'al- heavy Bolters
125
total 1750
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Nathan
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:44 pm

How much is Lemartes again? It might be easier to just go with him.
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:37 pm

don't like the model, would loose plasma pistol, and i would have 10points left with nothing to spend it on. but this list is dare i say, Sad fex popping perfection.
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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:36 pm

lemartes is a better chaplin(make your own model for him who cares) and he doesnt have a plasma pistol
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:36 pm

lemartes has an extra wound and an ability that will not get used, the plasma pistol is of more use so the chaplain stays. Not to mention that it would strike me as odd to find a blood angels character in a black dragons army.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:39 pm

Well you would change his name and so on, it's still tourney legal... build you own model and VOILA!

So yeah... I agree with going with Lemartes.

Other than that, list looks fun. I bet it will struggle with fast armor... but then again, who doesn't?

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:15 am

my going theory is that fast armor generaly = low armor so the ba'als will statistically glanse a falcon/hammerhead every other turn and the veterans will glance 2/3 turns when in range. this results in roughly only one or two shooting back every turn. So my strategy is either to rush the objective and wait for the falcons to come in. Or... line a ba'al up on each end and one in the middle. deathcompany behind the center, veterans behind thones on either end and the othe two squads splitting the difference to slow down any troops. If i rush the 3 formations forward, on a 6' table my charge range covers the entire board and deep enough that they cannot cross it. So garunteed ba the 3rd turn something/s is going to get the bajesus charged out it facing 9or12(not sure if thunder hammers benefit from xtra ccw) thunder hammer hits, or 40 s5 rending attacks that reroll to hit.Very Happy granted it will be 6s to hit, but it all sounds impressive, especialy since from that point on, assuming i have more than one ba'al left, something will always be showing its rear armor to the heavy bolters. There is also some play room with the placement of assualt squads seeing that the falcons and most waves serpents will be place before them.
Note: I know this all only sounds decent on paper and would probably never acutally work but i am trying to be positive.
My bassic priorities are going to be...
-keeping my units within countercharge range of each other.
-making sure that nasty ordinance 'specialy indirect fire does not survive the first turn( at least to the best of my abilities)
-run like hell from stealers, guants, warriors, banshees, swarms, flagalents, assassins
-run like the dickens toward tanks, ICs, harlies, termies, devies.
- i light jog towards anything i haven't mentioned should suffice
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:42 pm

Sounds pretty solid, what about Lemartes? Smile

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:07 pm

i could go with lemartes but then what do i do with 10 points
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:57 pm

add a flamer or a melta gun to one of the assault squads?

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:32 pm

from matts post it sounds like rending is getting to where it won't be effective against armor. Any thoughts on what to replace the Ba'al with?
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:01 pm

Don't for now. Just buy new turrents when 5th rolls around (if it ends up even being that bad).

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:56 pm

Having done a bit more planning, i reworked my prospective list a little. It now looks as such.

HQ Chaplain

plasma pistol

jump pack 135

elite assualt squad 8x

3 thunder hammers

2 melta guns 335

assualt squad 8x

3 thunder hammers

2 melta guns 335

Death company 9x

jump packs 170

troops assualt squad 165

power fist

assualt squad 165

power fist

assualt squad 165

power fist

Heavy Las- Predator

heavy bolters 130

Las- Predator

heavy bolters 130



total 1730
I am not sure what to do with the extra 20 points, but on a hight note, the entire list is plastic
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:01 pm

I'd take Lemartes instead of the chappy (just rename him as your own character).

I wouldn't load thunder hammers like that either, not really necessary.

Perhaps this would free points to bulk out another assault squad. I'd also drop the tanks in favor of a dev squad you can combat squad. The armor as it is is just begging to be ripped to shreds (not much for enemy AT to shoot at).

Maybe even one less assault squad as troops with a tac that can provide some AT (lascannon etc). Maybe throw some melta gunning attack bikes in there once it is reworked.

right now it just seems a bit one trick pony.

Good start though. I'd post it over in the Army List section to see if it gets more responses.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:18 am

First off, isn't this the army list section?. To put some logic to my madness i'll give you my ideas to see what you think.
- Predators- these are here to reach out and touch somebody on the first turn. I am banking on them looking/being threatining enough to draw the magority of the AT fire on the first turn, as not to over expose my veterans/death company
- Third Assualt squad- is here just to give me a few more numbers ro work with and count as an extra scoring unit.
- thunder hammers- just stay
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:21 am

Quote :
First off, isn't this the army list section?

Haha, you're right it is... I'm just losing it Smile

Ok so you won't budge on the thunder hammers Sad

I think you will find them a bit OT for anything, but that's ok I suppose.

If the third squad is just for an extra unit etc, just buy more dudes for one of the other squads and then combat squad them.

Perhaps with the points you save you can diversify a bit.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:48 am

I can cut the third squad and add a 4 man 2 melta and a spicial weapon on the captian. And i will try experimenting with some devis
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:13 pm

Yeah, they way see it right now. The enemy will be able to pull you into fire-lanes (you kind of do one thing really well after all) and pick you off before a counter-charge.

If you can answer with something of your own perhaps you will be better off.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Maybe I could stand to lose a few thunder hammers under the wisdom of the admin. and i do need a little bit of shooty, so how about this Laughing


HQ Lemartes 125



elite assualt squad 7x

2 thunder hammers

2 melta guns 280

assualt squad 7x

2 thunder hammers

2 melta guns 280

Death company 8x

jump packs 160

troops assualt squad 5x 165

power fist

assualt squad 5x 165

power fist

Fast Bike squad 5x

2x melta

powerfist 215

Attack Bikes

2x multi-melta

100

Heavy Las Predator

heavy bolters 130

Las Predator

Heavy bolters 130

total 1750
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:57 pm

I don't think i like this squad too much

Quote :
Fast Bike squad 5x

2x melta

powerfist 215

Perhaps add another double multi melta attack bike squad and then some meltas to some of the assault squads.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:05 pm

Attack bike i can do but you can't put special weapons in basic assualt squads, but what is wrong with the bike squad?
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: black dragons   Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:23 pm

Just don't really think they are that effective, you can have 2 more attack bike sqadrons (more firepower and only 2 less wounds). and they can go after different targets.

_________________
Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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