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 More 5th Edition Rumors

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Matt
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PostSubject: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:00 am

Quote :
Shooting
-There's now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).
-All models friend or foe now block line of sight. Vehicles and Monstrous Creature can be targeted over intervening infantry.
-Area terrain does not block line of sight.
-All blast weapons now scatter.

Vehicles
-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.
-Skimmers Moving Fast is now a 5+ cover save. (I have heard this is the new rule for All Obscured Targets)
-Dedicated transports can now carry any unit (subject to normal restrictions, i.e., no Terminators) and are no longer the deathtraps they have been (no entangling, just pinning).
-AP 1 weapons add +1 to the vehicle damage chart instead of doing as they do now.
-Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and pick the highest on the vehicle damage table.

Miscellaneous
-Independent Character targeting restrictions have been eased.
-There is no IC protection any longer unless he is joined to a unit
-ICs within 2" of a unit automatically join it.
-Dark Eldar are not gone, as they're mentioned in the rules (their jetbikes DO get the 6" assault).
-Frag grenades operate as plasma grenades now.
-Monstrous creatures get move through cover, not a reroll.
-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

Missions
-The missions are different enough that Troops only counting as scoring isn't as big a deal as it would be today.
-Victory points are calculated differently in "cleanse" style missions (points calculated depending on the FOC slot the dead unit took up).
-Scouts and Infiltrators can now try to outflank the enemy and come on as reserves from a different board edge.
-Deepstrike is the same, but if you can't place all the models, you roll on the "deepstrike mishap" table (50% you're dead, 50% you place yourself anywhere you like).

Overall, the rules look a lot more detailed. Not as detailed as 2nd edition, but now there's a difference between a guy standing on the roof of a building and a guy standing in the basement. Actual line of sight matters a lot more than "pretend" line of sight now.

-As usual folks, Caveat emptor...

Wow, 5th is starting to feel a lot like the good old days of 2nd as far as detail goes but without the crazy uber characters. Its looking like vehicles are getting both more deadly and more vulnerable at once, and maneuvering is going to become an art again. No more 150 man gun-lines just setting up in a big mob and blazing away. With friendlies blocking LoS, your movement and setup skills for both offense and defense is now very, very important! Kind of like Fantasy to think of it...

From the BoLS


Sounds like a lot of the old 2nd Ed depth is getting added back in. But not so much that it gets retarded (like any logical thinker knows 2nd to have been Wink). All in all, I like what I'm hearing, 40k could do with a little more depth, but maybe I am just wanting something fresh.

Some of these things do seem to = huge nerfs though. Landspeeders will be nigh on useless with def wpns becoming str 4 or less and the obscured target rules. Horde armies won't be able to shoot as easily (but when did they really need to anyway I guess).

Perhaps being on a different elevation will allow you to shoot over friendlies.

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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:44 am

These rumors seem pretty exciting to me. Maybe it's just cause my force is so small I would rarely block my own line of sight Wink
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:25 pm

Would that be members of the same squad blcok line of sight or from other squads only? Otherwise yikes for da orks!!!

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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:29 pm

I doubt it, from a logistics stand point makes little sense.

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Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
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Scav
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:42 pm

f the skimmer nerf...

tactics will be changing drastically soon... have you heard about the fact that its possible that only troop choices will be scoring units/able to hold objectives?

pretty insane! but whatever they can do to make the game more fun is cool with me.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:51 pm

yeah i posted all of those rumors in a topic a while back.

I personally welcome the change, and skimmers will no be more fragile and not uber overpowered.

Sucks for speeders/falcons though Smile

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Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:01 pm

now I have a reason to hold off on building my Tau....


well...and the fact I have no job...
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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 5:22 pm

This makes the broadside even better for tau. Adding some thing players from fantasy have gotten used to it seems as well(line of sight blocking and such) I imagine it would be by squad since members in their own squad in front would kneel down and duck down as they fired
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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:57 pm

great AT-43 rule...Knee to the Ground
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:03 pm

CJ is playing word association. It has nothing to do with what Bruce said really.

What Bruce is saying is that members of the squad would not block line of sight much like they don't now CJ.

Keep it on topic, please.

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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:37 pm

was in topic.....giving an example
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:16 pm

I don't see how it was an example, but ok.

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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:24 am

read your AT-43 rulebook and you will see what I was talking about.
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:33 am

Thankfully I have moved to an alternate list where I drop my twin APCs and twin Preds in replace of 4 Oblits and some candy on the Daemon Prince.

Vehicles are on the way out it seems.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:10 pm

I have CJ, except there will be no rule in 40k if you were reading correctly. It will happen just as it does now for squad members. You won't be able to order units in front to drop to their knee. Bruce was referring to the FIRERS unit. I think you misunderstood. You won't be able to spend some sort of resource to ask another squad to drop to a knee (like in AT-43).

Marc: Seems to me that the landraider will be one of the only viable vehicles for doing anything after this is all said and done.

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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:02 pm

Agreed.
A sound business move after flooding the market with Apoc Vehicles and Datasheets.
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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:17 pm

misunderstood! I did read that wrong
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:18 pm

I think the rules changes will be a good thing overall.

But vehicles really will be dead, they really just exist to enable a one time 12" move before falling apart. At least the rumors show that entanglement won't happen like before.

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Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:21 pm

but how will this effect like bikes or smaller skimmers....say Pirahna's? Speeders?
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:25 pm

I was guessing that it would be either 5+ you ignore the hit, or 5+ it becomes a glance, one of the two. We'll have to wait until spring until someone leaks the new rulebook.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:17 pm

From what I read it is 5+ ignore the hit for fast moving vehicles.

CJ: Remember Bikes are NOT vehicles so won't really change all that much based on these rumors.

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Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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CJ
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:28 pm

I think it's the mechanical thing....I do this all the time....
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Steve
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:54 pm

What about the possibility of the rhino rush comming back? If its just going to be a pinning test, then marines wont fail often enough to stop the tide. I was just thinking about this because your troops will be the only scoring units. Overall I think all of the rumors sound like the game will be more balanced and about tatics, instead of building a cheese a list. Might have taken a couple of years but i think GW might be on the right track.
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:56 pm

dude i love these new ruels, just confused on the whole wound allowication
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: More 5th Edition Rumors   Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:21 pm

Steve: I still don't see it coming back (at least not in the same form as before) because you still can't assault out of the vehicle.

Tyler: It means that you have to roll saves individually for differing models in the unit, no longer taking a lump amount of saves and picking the casualty (avoiding special models like heavy weapons etc).

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Dark Angels 1750 win/loss Record
Win - 23 (Belial helped wreck Ryan's puny Eldar)
Loss - 13 (Brice's Necrons wiped me)
Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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