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 Predators, which is better

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Rob
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PostSubject: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:34 am

Is it the las turret w/ heavy bolter sponsons at 130 pts
or
The autocannon turret w/ lascannon sponsins, also at 130 pts
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:42 am

I think it depends on what type of force you are facing, and whether or not you can bring the force of the heavy bolters to bear on light to medium infantry or if you need more anti-tank power. Personally I would favor the autocannon with las sponsons cause I typically like to fire anti tank weapons at elite infantry to make sure they stay dead.
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:12 pm

What do you need the Pred to do?
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:08 pm

Quote :
Is it the las turret w/ heavy bolter sponsons at 130 pts

Reason being, it can move and shoot with everything. The LC sponson version can't do that.

It's the defacto tourney class pred.

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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:12 pm

It is, but there can be a reason to take the Autocannon turret in some army builds.

I agree, never the Lascannon sponsons.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 1:15 pm

Quote :
It is, but there can be a reason to take the Autocannon turret in some army builds.

I agree, never the Lascannon sponsons.

Agreed, but as far a take all comers list the LC turret and Hvy Bltr sponsons reigns supreme. The auto cannon is in a strange place imo. Much more efficient to have a LC against most opponents.

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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:14 pm

Matt wrote:
Much more efficient to have a LC against most opponents.

Agreed

..what a love fest Laughing
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:18 pm

However t his will change pretty drastically if the 5th Ed rumors prove to be true. None of those weapons will be "defensive" and be able to shoot if the tank is moving. I guess we'll have to see about that when the time comes though. I kind of hope they move that up to Str 5.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:56 pm

Same here, it really nerfs just about every tank to make it str4.

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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:48 pm

so is it really diffinative one way or the other? Would running one of each in a 2 pred army be viable?
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Bojesphob
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:11 pm

Well, you could always do what I did with my baneblade... You could always magnetize the sponsons and the turret, and game play each combination and decide which way you like best....
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Mack_attack
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:12 pm

Me pesonaly well with a twin link laz cannon if the thing you aim at is a single target then you know what you would want to aim it at and with heavy bolters to knock it off well that makes infantry like tissue paper and also against heavy infantry it is still nice to have more shots then bodys
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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:34 pm

I did some quick math which marv is welcome to dispute, but when both tanks stand and shoot, assuming that only one sponson can see, they stand an even shot at glancing armor 13. The autocannon las takes the advantage as the armor goes down, visa versa for armor 14. Against the ever so popular devastators, outside 36 inches the las turrent has a 5/6 chance of 5/6 one where the AC with los on one sponson will kill 5/6 as well. So asuming that they do not move defensive weapons back up to s5. There is really no major advantage either way
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:47 pm

I disagree, being able to move and fire with the LC + Hvy Bltr version is something shouldn't be scoffed at.

Deploy behind terrain (so you don't get lit up for not having first turn) roll round on your turn and fire.

I used to run both in my DG list, and the las sponsons just aren't worth it imo.

The autocannon is also pretty weak, you might be hitting at strength 7 but with AP 4 who cares (that's why it's cheaper Smile)

I'd definitely roll the LC turret and heavy bolter sponsons (and will be with my DA).

Steve should drop in here, I know he runs two of these in his list.

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Rob
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:00 pm

Right now there is no doubt that the Las/bolter is better, but what happens if in 5th if you cannot move and fire the bolters as defensive weapons.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:17 pm

Then it's still better than the other imo as it can multi task more effectively.

The 6 heavy bolter shots are enough to deal with infantry most of the time with the autocannon being in limbo between wanting to hit big things and still hit small things.

We'll have to wait and see if the Str 4 thing remains as it, but I would venture to say that it will change. Maybe we will know soon as we are seeing the next group of iterations on the 5th Ed. pre-release.

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Draw - 2 (The 13th hold out in alpha take and hold)
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:26 pm

Well a rotation is free, so the tank should still be able (barring odd terrain) to fire both lascannons and the autocannon. The chance to penetrate an AV 13 tank with this setup is 44% versus 30% with the twin linked lascannon. As the AV drops below 13 the autocannon model becomes even better as the autocannon can start to do something more than immobilize. Basically this is a much better tank hunting/termi/carnifex killing etc. layout. The current issue arrises from the fact that it has to sit in park most of the game in order to accomplish anything, which is much worse than it's 50% increased effectiveness in lascannon ability. The only shooting advantage of the HB model is the amount of fire it can direct at infantry models, especially those with 4+ saves. Yet it has a huge tactical advantage in that it can move and still shoot. If the defensive weaponry rule changes, the autocannon/las sponsons will be the clear winner, since both tanks would have to sit in neutral in order to do anything anyway.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:44 pm

They could move and fire a main weapon still. The lascannon turret being the better one if it still moves and shoots.

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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:21 am

eBay all non-LandRaiders asap Laughing
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Evil Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Fri Feb 08, 2008 1:14 pm

Marc wrote:
eBay all non-LandRaiders asap Laughing
Hillarious.

Might want to hold on to a couple of the Dreads tho'.
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Steve
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:42 pm

Bottom line is that the only side sponson for preds is heavy bolters. I have fielded every pred viaration. The las spon is nice but over priced and you lose mobility. Not to mention with marines you want every unit to be able to do everything, because of the smaller army size. If you want to play in tournaments I would say you have to take the las turret and heavy bolters, guarnetee wound and up to 6 more. The autocannon pred only stands out againts orcs really, every other match up you will end up wanting the twin las. And if you dont play tournaments, field what you want or you know will do well against your friends.

If 5th edition is S4 defensive weapons, it will be the death of the pred, and almost every other tank. Even the monolith has S5 gauss flaux arc, tau missile pod, and eldar shuriken cannons. Tanks will be gone from the game in competive play.
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Nathan
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:45 pm

Even as fairly cheap transports? (thinking of 35 pt Rhinos here)
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:10 am

your wrong on the tau since the missle pods need no los you just tank a fish pay the extra 20 points and you have a smart missle fish. Also if you are talking seeker missles do not belive they are effcted either since you have to marker their target. Also things like Rhinos, razorbacks and such are fine since the razor only has 1 s5 or up gun and one s 4 gun, and the rhino only has a s 4 gun, the fish has a s5 true but the drones dont count aganist its shot so it has 3 differnt guns at s5 it can fire. Also if it is ur only anti tank option id prefer the 3 lasconnon or the side sposon las, since you just get more firepower, sure it costs more but it will only cost you a marine or 2 and be a great hvy inf killer as well
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:20 pm

Bruce: Most tournament boards are very scarce on the terrain front anyway, so hiding a large skimmer vehicle is pretty difficult.

I think the crusader will be just about the only tank left standing. Other than the monolith (with troops only objective grabbing, one of these deepstriking onto an objective and tele-porting warriors through becomes outright terrifying).

If it does go down to str 4 defensive preds will be gone for sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Predators, which is better   Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:44 pm

I am not a marine player... never will be... heck i just jumped in to this conversation and may not be back but... i would have to say the LC + HB side sponsers is da best take it from the orks we always put a bunch of little shootas around one big power claw ind it seems to be working
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