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Preter
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PostSubject: 1500 point Guard   Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:40 am

Just a preliminary list I've been working on. It utilizes most of the models I now have but I am looking to expand and any suggestions for swaps or anything to really make the list pop are greatly appreciated.

HQ

Command Squad -
Junior Officer w/ Honorifica Imperialis, Powerfist, Boltpistol
Commissar w/ Powerfist, Laspistol
4x CCW & laspistols, Company Standard

157

TROOPS

2x Command Squads - Powerfist, 4x CCW

120 (60 each)

3x Infantry Squad - Lascannon, Plasma gun

285 (95 each)

3x Infantry Squad - Autocannon, Plasma gun

255 (85 each)

3x Infantry Squad - Heavy Bolter, Plasma gun

240 (80 each)

HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ Demolisher - Hull Lascannon, Plasma Cannon Side Sponsons, Smoke Launchers, Extra Armor

193

2x Basilisk - Indirect fire

250 (125 each)

1500

According to what I've read on other forums this is a basic "Castle Guard" list with an armor component. The basic idea is to stuff the basilisks in each corner for maximum coverage while the demolisher is stashed in the center for when the enemy tries barreling down the center to avoid the basilisks' big guns. If they attempt a flank then the demolisher and the infantry taking up the center reinforce said flank while the opposite basilisk bombards that side. The Honorifica Imperialis and the commissar make a leadership 10 bubble and the commands squads are COUNTER assault units. Otherwise the infantry squads provide bodies and heavy weapons fire and hopefully the final push through a shot up enemy to take the objectives in the endgame.
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cowbomber
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:24 am

why does everyone insist on putting las cannons in there troop choices? Neutral
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:05 am

I like your list, it has components for handling a wide range of things!
I would liek to take it on with my Ultramarines, Orks, and Nids.

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Evil Bob
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:59 am

Just a few thoughts. Before I say anything note that from personal experience the 'guard have many units that are very specific to the type of battlefield or mission.

Also the next edition is likely to radically change how I play.

That being said.

Basilisks: These are often the mack-daddies with that sexy earthsaker cannon. But if the enemy has good deepstrike or a lack of terrain then these cheep mechanized artillery pieces are no longer so cheep. Spreading them out is good darn good plan.

Demolisher: Enjoyable in city fights or other dense terrain. Mine have often gotten immobilized at range. Overall since 3rd edition these generally have performed less well than the regular Lemun Rus. Although in one mega battle a deepstriking Monolith landed right in front of one that was providing sentry duty for some basilisks. One shot one kill, poor Necron bastard.

Infantry: Lasguns just suck. They are appropriate for what the Imperial Guard are but at the point cost when I set up strategy the lasguns are never taken into account. The men are just extra wounds to protect the lascannon and plasmagun.

Lascannons and Heavy Bolters: Ever since 3rd these seem to be the standard staple. Leaning towards the type based on the enemy faced.

Auctocannons: Once upon a time these were very useful. The change from 2nd wasn't so kind. In theory within a defended position like a bunker. Otherwise it doesn't really excel in any role. I have talked with other IG players who say they get use out of it, just not in my case.

Command Squads: I build my own battle standard and have never regretted it. Get a medic too.


Need to get going to the Dark Hersey game now, will try and throw some more thoughts at ya later.
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:06 pm

The problem with the current Guard Codex is point costs. All Heavy and Special weapons cost the same for a BS3 Guardsmen as it does for a BS4 Marine (10pt Meltagun for example)

Autocannons are great for Speeders and APCs. The 48" range is what makes them viable. They are perfect on Sentinels and I like them in Platoon Comm squads as well.

Until they "fix" the BS3 weapons cost a castle army will come up short imo. With 5th on the horizon I expect horde light infantry or drop guard.
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Nathan
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:22 pm

I understand the basic theory behind "Castle Guard", but what about missions that require movement towards the enemy (Recon for example)?
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Preter
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:13 pm

Yeah I do realize that the standard guard are still a second tier list seeing as the basic cheap infantry is not so cheap, I've heard the cost of the standard squad is dropping from 60 to either 50 or 40 which is a primary reason I am going with a infantry heavy list. Since I am playing Catachans I think in 5th fudging them into light infantry will be easy enough.
Anyway some changes I was thinking of personally was either dropping a couple infantry squads for hardened veterans squads since for 2 more points a model I get a BS of 4, three plasma guns in one squad, Ld 8, and the ability to infiltrate. The other option is to drop a bit of infantry and the Russ and go for heavy weapons teams. A third option I was considering was maybe slimming down the command squads and dropping an infantry squad then making them all infiltrate at an extra ten points a squad. The infiltration is more to deploy all my troops last and in good positions than to really try to get closer to the enemy.
Oh and the autocannons in my experience have nearly always got their points back especially against eldar and t3 armies. They are simply the best light vehicle destroyers in my armies and considering that the only things with 14 armor are other Russes, Land Raiders, and the Monolith all of which are few and far between in 1500-2000 point games I think I will stick to them.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:21 pm

Autocannons are always a thorn in my side when i face an opponent with them (they reek havoc on my speeders).

I like this list, seems to me you have done your research.

Quote :
Leaning towards the type based on the enemy faced.

Most of the time in this group we play take all comer lists (more tournament like) so this rarely factors in (well you do tend to lean toward facing MEQ lists, but that's about as far as it goes).

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Evil Bob
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:13 pm

Preter wrote:
Yeah I do realize that the standard guard are still a second tier list seeing as the basic cheap infantry is not so cheap, I've heard the cost of the standard squad is dropping from 60 to either 50 or 40 which is a primary reason I am going with a infantry heavy list. Since I am playing Catachans I think in 5th fudging them into light infantry will be easy enough.
It would be about time they lowered the point cost on the squad. I always figured the weapon costs were what GW thought was fair for damage values.

With the current game the IG can fight well. I've used the Grenadier Regiment, a command and two storm troopers playing at being basic infantry, everyone gets a Chimera. After that fitting in vehicles is easy. With Ordinance the IG gets competative fast. The next edition may drastically change all of this.
Preter wrote:
Oh and the autocannons in my experience have nearly always got their points back especially against eldar and t3 armies. They are simply the best light vehicle destroyers in my armies and considering that the only things with 14 armor are other Russes, Land Raiders, and the Monolith all of which are few and far between in 1500-2000 point games I think I will stick to them.
Nice. Autocannons and Missile Launchers personally just are just too middle of the road. With Heavy Bolter that 12 inches shorter has never been an issue, especially when there is another whole die to roll.

But as I said others have had other experiences so this isn't a new topic. And certainly the matter doesn't have a definative answer.

To help keep all of this in prespective some people who use Missile Launchers tell me it's a nice little point savings (compared to the Lascannon) and that they actually get use of the templates.
Preter wrote:
Anyway some changes I was thinking of personally was either dropping a couple infantry squads for hardened veterans squads since for 2 more points a model I get a BS of 4, three plasma guns in one squad, Ld 8, and the ability to infiltrate.
Harden Vets can be interesting. If you know for certain the task they'll perform they can be good. Generally like all IG squads someting with lots of teeth or spewing bullets destroys them before they get to do anything. I have always suspected they might do better in general with Cities of Death since the 4+ Cover save is so omnipresent.
Preter wrote:
The other option is to drop a bit of infantry and the Russ and go for heavy weapons teams.
Only if you can get them 4+ Cover Saves or keep them well screened. In larger games I'll use heavy weapon teams. They are too expensive to be gambled with, so work for a solid strategy with them.
Preter wrote:
A third option I was considering was maybe slimming down the command squads and dropping an infantry squad then making them all infiltrate at an extra ten points a squad. The infiltration is more to deploy all my troops last and in good positions than to really try to get closer to the enemy.
Sounds cool as hell. I did a drop army once. Don't see them surviving much less wining hand to hand. In the previous Cities of Death book the guard could pull large blob squads that were actually good.
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Evil Bob
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PostSubject: Re: 1500 point Guard   Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:17 pm

Matt wrote:
Quote :
Leaning towards the type based on the enemy faced.

Most of the time in this group we play take all comer lists (more tournament like) so this rarely factors in (well you do tend to lean toward facing MEQ lists, but that's about as far as it goes).
Power Armor is the bane of the crunchy armies general weapons.

My rule of thumb was Lemun Rus Ordinance for Power Armor, Las for vehicles. Basilisks shoot whatever worried me the most at that moment.
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