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PostSubject: OG list building   OG list building EmptyMon Aug 25, 2008 7:33 am

OK - some I'm looking at my Orc and Gobbos for making the tournament and need some recommendations on units. Whether increase size, add a unit or something else entirely. Can this force be effective or is their a big hole I am missing?


Core:
20 Orc boyz w/ 2 choppas full command
20 Orc boys w/ spear and Shield Full command
40 night goblins w/ spear and shield, command, netters, 3 fanatics.
10 Spiders command
10 wolf riders bows command
16 Arrer boys

Special: (0 to 4)
12 Black Orcs Command
2 Squig Herds
1 Rock Lobba
2 Spear Chukkas

Rare:
Giant
3 Trolls

about (1850 in pts).


Characters - I have the following generics

Orc on Boar choppa/shield
Black Orc Champion (2 choppas)
Night Goblin Shamman
Goblin Champion (2 Choppas)
Warboss on Wyvern
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyMon Aug 25, 2008 11:59 am


Good Start See below for my suggestions
Who will be your General?
Grimgor is by far one of the best Characters in the game, however how can you pass up on Azhag with his necromancy spells on a wyvern!
If you don't want to go with a special Character then go Savage Orc Shaman Level 4 (6+ ward save)
add another shaman to go to the Trolls.

Core:
20 Orc boyz w/ 2 choppas full command
20 Orc boys w/ spear and Shield Full command
40 night goblins w/ spear and shield, command, netters, 3 fanatics.
**** You'll want about 3 of these units at 20 a pc. with three fanatics, netters are good but not needed unless your doing an all goblin army.)
10 Spiders command
10 wolf riders bows command
**** Good choices here but maybe increase to 15 if you have the points***
16 Arrer boys
**** Orcs can't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside let the artillery do the talking****
Special: (0 to 4)
12 Black Orcs Command
2 Squig Herds
*** Very fun but should be left to an all Goblin army, very effective, but I would suggest another rock Lobber to take down big things like dragons or generals on Pegasusssesss***
1 Rock Lobba
*** add a second****
2 Spear Chukkas
Rare:
Giant
***Damn I love this guy...***
3 Trolls
***Stick a Shaman in this unit to bolster the LD for stupidity, also if you go with the stone trolls you get Magic Resistence!***

1850 the tourney is 2250... don't know if you caught that or not.
We can play on friday if you come to Illuminadi!

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
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bardechh
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyMon Aug 25, 2008 6:07 pm

Here's what I think. you have a low leadership army so you'll need to win with static combat res.
keep the spiders at 10.
Ditch the Arrers
2 units of 5 wolf riders with only a muso. they're not supposed to get into prolonged combat anyway.
da Boys units should be at least 23 on the unit. If no heroes than 25
I like gobos in 6x6 blocks. Ditch the netters.
Everything else is good
Giant is gold!!!
Trolls can be crap only take 1
I'd try to find room for a unit of 25 savage orcs.
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyMon Aug 25, 2008 9:25 pm

Use the Cavalry for Flank attacks...

You don't need more than 20 night goblins to deliver fanatics... If you are counting on the goblins to do anything BUT deliver the fanatics your playing the wrong army.

Trolls are very good you just have to do something to increase their LD...

Savage Orcs are really good though.

I actually prefer to get the enemy to run or demoralize them... and of course have some fun. If it works they are unbeatable, if not it may work...

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyThu Aug 28, 2008 4:33 pm

More questions -

So what's so good about the savage orcs?

Is it the 3 attacks w/ Frenzy and additional Choppa. Ward save 6+ can't be all that?

Is it a must to max out on characters? I am going to run Azhag, an orc or NG shaman, and Black Orc boss. Do I need another Boss for a unit?

Thanks for answering the Noob questions.
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Keith
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyMon Sep 01, 2008 10:13 pm

yea another question is magic stuff. I see options for magic stuff w/ my shamans/ Is there a must take items?
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JTPitt
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 12:05 am

Did you nublets not read your codex lol j/k. Read all your magic items I know there are like one or two you might need to take can't remember them though.
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 12:11 am

John Gemrich wrote:
More questions -

So what's so good about the savage orcs?

Is it the 3 attacks w/ Frenzy and additional Choppa. Ward save 6+ can't be all that?

Is it a must to max out on characters? I am going to run Azhag, an orc or NG shaman, and Black Orc boss. Do I need another Boss for a unit?

Thanks for answering the Noob questions.

Savage Orcs Shamans get a save any otehr s don't unless you pay more for them.

But yea that extra attack and a save againsta Cannon ball is so worth it...

As far as magic items there aren't any "must" haves but there are a lot of good ones. The magic item that is only 15points and increases like 3 stats is a very good one to take!

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 12:20 am

JTPitt wrote:
Did you nublets not read your codex lol j/k. Read all your magic items I know there are like one or two you might need to take can't remember them though.

Shheeeet. I may be new but at least I know in WHFB it's an army book and not a codex. Very Happy


With exactly zero games under my belt it's tough to get a bead on what's good.

For instance I saw the item Sean was talking about. There is another item thats 10 pts more but only raises 1 stat. Without a good understanding of the impact the increase have it's tough to tell which item is more effective for the cost.
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JTPitt
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 8:30 am

Codex, Army book same damn thing. I think they have just been havin me play 40k to much lol. Yea I understand....when you get some games in it will make more sense to you.
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Keith
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 9:14 am

thanks guys. this whole magic thing is new to me.
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JTPitt
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 9:19 am

Its a lot like psychic powers.
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Keith
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 9:31 am

yea thats kinda what I'm realizing. Hopefully soon I can get a game in with you guys for fantasy
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 12:24 pm

I'll play you on Friday then!!!
JGem you comin on friday? I'll play ya too!

_________________
The footprints made in the sands of time are not made by sitting down... Unless your playing Warhammer WAAAGH!

New times calls for new Records:
Orcs & goblins (3-1-2)
Empire (0-0-0)
6th Edition
Orks (0-0)
Marines (3-1)
Imperial Guard (0-0)
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyTue Sep 02, 2008 1:46 pm

makari wrote:
I'll play you on Friday then!!!
JGem you comin on friday? I'll play ya too!

Yep....I'm in.
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Jeff P
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyFri Sep 12, 2008 7:31 pm

If 2000 is your goal, lets look at some options. Orcs, get those blocks up to 25 if you can. I dont like shields on them at all. If you can change to 2 weapons or choppa/shield do it. The choppa rule makes spears stink as an option since you now get the HW/SH bonus and +1S round 1 of combat. I like 25 since you really need #s and light armor wont stop much. Plus you have some nifty items that relate to your rank bonus.

40 gobbos. not a terrible option, but I like more units. Id make 2 units of 20. I run 1x30 and 1x20 myself, but each of those has a different role. I really not sold on fanatics. Ive played orcs for 6yrs and they just dont pay off. They may your throw away unit of gobbos cost more than double if you put 3 fanatics in. Id put 0-1 per unit. 1 keeps your enemy honest and the unit cheap. Spears again are not worth it in my opinion. on small units no command or only a musician. remember these dont panic orcs and you want them out baiting or redirecting the enemy into a spot your orcs and get at them.

spiders are great units. Id take 2x5. fast cav dont get rank bonus and your units just dont fight that well. these are expendable support units to drive your enemy crazy till your hitters can finish him.

wolf riders. ditto to above. i dont even take spears anymore. no upgrades maybe a musician. again, these are throwaways to keep your enemy off balance and threaten warmachines. even if you dont kill the machine, every turn in combat with it means its not firing.

Arrers. I like a block of 10 on occasion. I dont use them often, but they seem to do ok. 10 gives you a nice support unit for which shooting is a bonus, but not primiary. Think of them as a flanker, bait, redirect unit that can sometimes shoot. Still have choppas and fight well. take them if you need to fill points up. otherwise Ive converted many of mine to regular orcs or even bullies.

black orcs. i just dont like them. they die to shooting just as easy as orcs and will be your enemys primary target. they are more than double the cost of an orc and frankly you can do more with 2-3 units of orcs than 1 unit of black orcs. They fight pretty good, but thats only if they can get there in 1 piece, often whats left isnt combat effective.

squig herds drive me crazy. I think they should work ok, but mine dont do so well. take them and figure them out better than I did. personally, for my special choices, its chariots. they take care of all that always strike first nonsence and Ive never seen a unit of swordmasters win vs 2 orc chariots in their face. I do take hoppers and chuckas. I really love orc chariots with extra crew.

Lobbas. I hate them. great model. but you miss all the time. if you can see the enemy (harder than you think with a horde army moving across the firing lanes) then you have to guess well, and not scatter or misfire. Id convert it into a doom diver and free up the special slot for chariots, hoppers or a small boar unit.

chuckas. I love them. almost manditory with all the big nasty monsters these days. I take 4 on occasion.

Giant is always good for a laugh. try to use terrain to keep him from getting shot to pieces.

trolls are fun. you have to baby sit them, but they are ok. I sometimes put a BSB on a boar with warbanner in the unit. gives them some leadship and static combat resolution.

ill get to more later, got to run.

Core:
20 Orc boyz w/ 2 choppas full command
20 Orc boys w/ spear and Shield Full command
40 night goblins w/ spear and shield, command, netters, 3 fanatics.
10 Spiders command
10 wolf riders bows command
16 Arrer boys

Special: (0 to 4)
12 Black Orcs Command
2 Squig Herds
1 Rock Lobba
2 Spear Chukkas

Rare:
Giant
3 Trolls

about (1850 in pts).


Characters - I have the following generics

Orc on Boar choppa/shield
Black Orc Champion (2 choppas)
Night Goblin Shamman
Goblin Champion (2 Choppas)
Warboss on Wyvern
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyFri Sep 12, 2008 8:06 pm

Thanks Jeff.

I've already incorporated a couple changes.

Up'd the Spear chukkas to 2. dropped the goblins to 30. Also went the a Big boss on boar from the trolls.

I'll see how she does.
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Jeff P
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PostSubject: Re: OG list building   OG list building EmptyFri Sep 12, 2008 11:34 pm

The problem with the Battle Standard Bearer with trolls is Im now in love with the bsb toting the dispel dice banner, so hes got to go in a unit. Ive run that and either no shamans or 1 with 2 scrolls and done pretty well.

Id take 1,2 trolls or 4. 3 isnt enough attacks. 1 is good for diverting and holding things up. 2 is maneuverable and can break ranks and redirect. can hit a unit head on and might win.


Savage orcs are liked because the extra attack is good, but also they are immune to psych. so one of the things that will reliably charge scarey things if they dont squabble. Savage orc big un boar boyz hit like a ton of bricks, if you can keep them alive and charging the right targets. frenzy can easily work against you if your opponent has some throw away units.

Squabble will kill you. welcome to O&G and the reason people dont like to take them to tourneys. They can do well for the most part, but there will bet a few times, and probably 1 game where animosity kills you. either the squabble or the unit surging out unsupported. If you have a good gaming attitude, orcs are fun. If youre very competitive, youre playing against the opponent, your rulebook, your dice, and the better books that came out after yours! They are an excercise in frustration at times.

Characters. I love BO characters. I dont typically take special characters as they are expensive and often have a liability Grimgore forces you to take BO and he on foot. so hes not all that hard to avoid and just shoot up his unit to pieces. If your enemy is dumb enough to engage then hes a wrecking ball in combat. I usually put my BOs on a boar. the armor save helps and you can move quickly to units that are about to get stuck in. BSB if you take a magic banner has only heavy armor, so on a pig it helps and again he can move faster.

I think the wyvern can be fun. I used one all summer and thought it became a crutch. Hes pretty darn good with akrit axe, kickin boots, enchanted shield and boss at. thats 5 s6 attacks with reroll misses, 3+ armor save and 5+ ward. then the 3 s6 wyvern attacks. problem is he usually is not near your units and cant lend his L9 easily to those other units. This is critical vs a fear causing enemy.

I saw one guy run a Night gobbo on a giant squig with the pipes of doom. hopped out and blew it to panic all enemy cav within 24". cave squig is fun but not very competitive/reliable for games that count. gobbos on wolves or chariots are more hitty and fast.

Ive never been a magic heavy person, but orc magic has some great spells. move spells, rerolls, strike 1st, decent missles. its all in there. Id never put a shaman on a wyvern though. you cant protect him very well and he doesnt fight very well. savage shamans are bad too. you dont want your wizard having to charge anything.

Anyway, I hope that helps. Jeff
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