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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 8:51 am

ok 1st off we need to figure out who all is interested and what is the day we are going to play, forwared I can make either weekend but mostly weekdays are out. Ill create a List of who wants to play and what armies(plase mention that when you post your interest). Also pleaee include what days you are aviable.


Player List
FrostWolf- Skaven-weekends
Crobar-see his post for armies
Jmarv-Lizardmen/Drawfs
Makari-see his post for armies
Angry Bob-VampireCouts/Orcs
Marc-Dark Elves/Mortal Choas

so far it looks like the day is going to be Saturday


WarHammer Fantasy Campaign outline

Each turn the teams roll off to see what order each team makes their move, the highest going 1st and the lowest going last.

Each player gets 1 hero for free (basic cost no equipment)
Each player in a team gets 500 points to spend on a guard for their lead character, this can include units, another hero, or equipment for the character
After 3 battles which the character survives (lived till the end or retreated off the battle field) the character becomes a lord a wizard becomes a wizard lord and a warrior becomes a warrior Lord, This is the only way to get Lords(not sure how to work out named people guess they just wont be able to be brought?)
Gold is used to buy units a units point cost it equal to its gold cost
Each territory may have 1 city, which provides so much gold based off the level it is currently at.

Each team has 1 capital, which provides more gold than a normal city/village, and 1 level 1 city that sits next to the capital (maximum based off the team with the lowest number of players)

The levels and gold per level for the capital is as follows
Level 1: 200
Level 2: 400
Level 3: 600
Level 4: 800
Level 5: 1000
Each capital comes with the following: tavern, and a barracks


The levels and gold per level for the city is as follows:
Level 1: 100
Level 2: 200
Level 3: 300
Level 4: 400
Level 5: 500

The cost to upgrade a city/capital is the amount of gold the level before it produces (for example a level 3 city would cost 200 gold to upgrade to level 4). In order to start a city it costs 100 gold and you may only upgrade a city one level per turn.

In order to hire a hero at a city you must have a tavern at a cost of 200gold
In order to hire a core unit you must have a Barracks you may build one at the cost of 100 gold
In order to hire a special you must have a special encampment you may build one at the cost of 200 gold
In order to hire a rare you must have a rare encampment you may build one at the cost of 300 gold
In order to hire a war machine you must have a machine shop you may build one at the cost of 300 gold
In order to hire a monster (including mount) you must have a breeding pin you may build one at the cost of 300 gold
In order to hire a Wizard you must have a Wizard Tower at a cost of 200 gold
If a unit falls under multiple building requirements you must have all of them in the same city in order get that unit. In order to reinforce or create an army the city it is in must have the required buildings. A unit may be less than the minimum requirement but if there is a maximum it may not surpass that limit, also any unit that has a limit of the number it may have that is based off per army (0-1 for example, each army may have one, so you could see multiple in a battle due to more than 1 army fighting). In order to get the next level of building you must have the level before it(barracks in order to get special camp, tavern or wizard tower, and special camp to get rare encampment, rare encampment to get breeding pin/machine shop).



Each army must be lead by at least 1 hero/lord and must be at least worth 500 gold (points), this is the only requirement for each force except that each must be of one army. If a unit runs off the table it is rallied after the battle and rejoins the army for the next battle. Any member of a unit that dies in battle stay dead, the unit fights with the remaining members the next battle if not replaced. Each army may only have 1 of each of the magical items.
Multiple armies of the same team may attack the same territory at once



Example of a starting unit for Skaven
Character: Wolf-Bark Warlock Engineer
500 points of guard
Equipment for Wolf-Bark: Warlock pistol, warp-blades, warp-energy condenser, warp-accumulator, talisman of protection, storm daemon-100 points
25 Clan rats: Musician, Standard, Ratling Gun-200 points
25 Clan rats: Musician, Standard, Ratling Gun-200 points


Ok so that’s my idea let me know what you all think, So things to add but it’s the basic idea for the campaign rules I had, based off the problems I saw in my friends campaign and the strengths I saw in it
My biggest question is putting a max points per army or per side in a battle in order to speed up the turns.

depedning some of the gold stuff might change, let me know what you all think


Last edited by FrostWolf on Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:11 pm; edited 11 times in total
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Crobar
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 10:03 am

I will play, I have....a few armies Smile.
I am available most days except Sundays once Eric gets back in town.
armies:
Brets
High Elves
Wood Elves
Ogre Kingdom
500pts or less:
Dark Elves (most need assembled)
Dwarves (some need assembled)
Chaos (need assembled)
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 10:07 am

If you do end up with a multiple people per army arrangement I'd love to drop in some times, but I don't know if I can commit to a regular appointment.

I have Lizardmen and Dwarfs. They are mostly assembled and can each reach 2000 pts, but are probably marginally equiped since I don't really have many special or rare units.
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 10:21 am

JMarv wrote:
I have Lizardmen and Dwarfs. They are mostly assembled and can each reach 2000 pts

Shocked you've been busy Shocked
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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 11:12 am

I bought a bunch of bits online that allowed me to double my skinks up to 48, and I've had 40 sauruses that I don't think have ever seen the table top at the same time plus 2 saurus lords, but that is the extent of my lizardmen force, mainly because all the other fun toys (salamanders, kroxigors, slaan, stegadons, teradons) are metal and expensive.

In dwarfs I did a similar thing where I bought an extra 22 legs to allow me to create a unit of quarrelers and more warriors and rangers. However they may not all have arms in place since I'm trying to figure out the best way to paint the bodies and arms separately before assembly.
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Makari
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 12:14 pm

I can do Sundays... maybe Saturdays. Weekday Bad!

My Armies:
Orcs & Goblins 3000+
Empire 2500+
Dwarf 1500
Woodelf 1500
Brit 1000

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Evil Bob
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 12:53 pm

I really liked Makari's comment about multiple people on a side. The last map campaign we did at The World of Hobbies and Games died in about a month. Although we did get in a ton of games.

My armies. Some Orcs but not sure if it is an actual force at this point, mostly for Warhammer Quest with expansion for multiplayer Waaaaghs.

Vampire Counts. Epic sized force, been collecting since they were the Undead.

Weekdays or weeknights depending so long as each game is well planned in advance. Over a week to be safe.

The hex tile sets are cool, also I can ink and rough drybrush up a new corkboard map to fit the game if that would help.
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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 1:19 pm

Please post the army you are planning on playing so I can keep a tally of them and work on possible teams, also im going to edit my ogrinal post and some basic information for my idea for a campaign inlcuding the team part and examples for part of it
so one for saturday, one for not sunday, and one for weekend looking like saturday
might take a bit to add it all I need to type it all up check for spelling oh and eat something
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Marc
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 2:14 pm

I would deffo need to be on a team. I might even need to borrow the teamates army Laughing

I have...

Dark Elves [500pts]
Chaos Mortals [500pts]
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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 2:45 pm

Forgot to mention the rules are based off my friend and when we player we had 5 players each was by themselves, 1st to lose was nathan who missed a day so fell about 10 turns behind(we did nothing but grab terriotry and build up the 1st 10 turns) 2nd was me and 3rd was going to be a wood elves player but we ended it there due to a limit in days we could play(we had a set number of days based off what we had planned to do next and when it was starting)
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 4:01 pm

Yeah, but Jake mostly took those rules from the Lustria campaign.
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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 4:05 pm

right and mine is modifed off his...... Razz so yea guess mines based off lustira to. oh well Razz Razz Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 4:42 pm

Just a couple of things that should be included. Do you lose the forces that die in a battle? What about the ones that run off the table? If you have a partial unit left, do you have to pay to bring them back up to full?
The names aren't important, if they are, the names will change based off the army list the players are using. Wood Elves for example have camps, i.e. Wardancer camp, Glade Guard camp, etc.. It might be fun to have the players come up with there own names for the buildings and just settle on a cross the board cost based on the function of the building, (core, special, rare, mages, etc.).
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 5:03 pm

opps forgot that part. Yes when you lose a unit(or part of it) in combat it is dead, but you can stil lfight with whats left of that unit/army, if a unit runs off the table it returns next game(whatever ran off the table, as we can asume someone rallied them back together). and yea names arent important but id still like a basic name base to give people a quick idea(its easier so say barrecks than it is to say core building thing). You have to buy each member of a unit so you can have less than the required amount if you lack the points to buy a full unit
updated the top to include this information
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyThu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm

Attrition could be interesting. In a basic sense it will give an advantage to elite forces with good saves and screw the crunchy forces. Or some unlucky slob who runs into a messy warmachine in a semi-open board.

Just so that people who play are duly warned. I for instance will be avoiding skeletons and maybe even zombie (at the start).



Aside-

The General's Compendium advocates a banner approach. With a never changing set point value and special situations for when the banners are actually destroyed.
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 6:02 am

If troops die when they die in battle, how will Fanatics be used? or have they become extremely expensive? I like the wound chart in old Mighty empires or something close to it... If they die in battle Roll a D6: 1-3Dead! 4-6 back next battle, if unit is routed -1, if lost -1, if won +1, etc...

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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 2:05 pm

In the Campaign we played they were just plain killed off, as for the banner idea and such from mighty empires, that is the part I leasted liked about it I liked my friends version due to being able to increse you points and outpouts of zones(oh yea how much should the upgrade to the next level cost? says the last levels gold?) but I am fine with the idea makari put forth but thats a lot of rolls for someone like skaven which can have a hundred+ troops easily in a 2k battle. The rules I posted are my idea of a campaign, if you dont like it please make sugestions for any part of it.

so the points we need to figure out so far are
max points per army?
cost of upgradeing the cities/capital and the cost to start one
if there is a roll for death or if they are just plain dead


few of my thoughts
the reason I like changing points is it allows people to plan and set up stuff with a possiblity of doing their armies any number of ways, also the reason why you can only reinfoce a army if you have the required building in the city/village

also when do we spend the gold we have gathered
here is my idea for that:
you add troops before people roll for turn. Then after everyone has moved and all battles are fought any left over gold can be spent on adding/upgradeing cities, this allows new terriotry to be added quickly while adding the army 1ts prevents one team from getting over welmed before they get to add troops to their armies
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 2:47 pm

FrostWolf wrote:
In the Campaign we played they were just plain killed off, as for the banner idea and such from mighty empires, that is the part I leasted liked about it I liked my friends version due to being able to increse you points and outpouts of zones(oh yea how much should the upgrade to the next level cost? says the last levels gold?) but I am fine with the idea makari put forth but thats a lot of rolls for someone like skaven which can have a hundred+ troops easily in a 2k battle. The rules I posted are my idea of a campaign, if you dont like it please make sugestions for any part of it.
You liked the Banner idea the least?

Banners are time tested by WFB players around the world. There is very solid reasoning in the Generals Compendium for using the Banner approach.

That being said trying out a system of detailed force lists would be a nice change of pace.

But I know for fact (backed up by the creators of the game) gold-to-point bought armies aren't the most productive way to run a campaign or fair to all the players either. It will get broken at times.

One very bad thing that can happen to any campaigns it they get too complicated to be fun anymore. The difficult trick for them all is to being just enriched enough to be interesting and fair but not so complex that the basic point of the game is lost.

Personally I don't think we've violated the KISS principle. Just increased the amount of work between turns, which is a different case.
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 2:52 pm

you can also have a bad case of run-away player going on.

point for gold is indeed hard to balance.

Keep up the good work though guys, nice to see everyone working on this Smile

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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 2:54 pm

when I played my friends version(which I changed none of the basics from) it was very fun, and yes it goe unballanced when at the end my friend had about 3.5k if not more of lizard men aganist my 1100(all the skaven he had added up to 1100 maybe a little more fully outfitted). I am trying to keep it simple enough but still like the complicated part of the game. And yea I know its tested and that but the problem with it is in the mighty Empires rules at least the banner rules for the bagge train and the set points(some sides got more cities and then more stuff from the cities) it seemed even less balanced than what I am trying to do
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 3:04 pm

Just reposting the following so no one has to go back and forth.
FrostWolf wrote:
In order to hire a hero at a city you must have a tavern at a cost of
In order to hire a core unit you must have a Barracks you may build one at the cost of 100 gold
In order to hire a special you must have a (taking suggestions for names on all blanks or even the ones I have names for if you have better idea) you may build one at the cost of 300 gold
In order to hire a rare you must have a you may build one at the cost of 500 gold
In order to hire a war machine you must have a machine shop you may build one at the cost of 500 gold
In order to hire a monster (including mount) you must have a breeding pin you may build one at the cost of 400 gold
In order to hire a Wizard you must have a Wizard Tower at a cost of 200 gold
If a unit falls under multiple building requirements you must have all of them in the same city in order get that unit. In order to reinforce or create an army the city it is in must have the required buildings. A unit may be less than the minimum requirement but if there is a maximum it may not surpass that limit, also any unit that has a limit of the number it may have that is based off per army (0-1 for example, each army may have one, so you could see multiple in a battle due to more than 1 army fighting)
The idea of increasing the importance of economic infrastructure effecting army composition is interesting. My suggestions would be to simplify the costs a little so someone doesn't have to double check all the time.

Tavern or Barracks: 100 gold
Forge, Animal Pen, Wizards Tower, all others: 300 gold (or some other value depending on how much one is trying to restrict the other types of units)

Yeah I like the idea of adding troops before movement and combat. Otherwise someone who goes on the offensive and has a hard won fight will end up getting clobbered the next turn.

My two cents on adding troops is to restrict how they can be added. Some kind of settlement a player controls should be X hexes away to be able to add the new points. Or that they are added at the end of the turn instead of the beginning. This would reflect supplies lines nicely and encourage people to build farther out from the capitol.
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 3:17 pm

You have to be in a city with the required buildings(barrecks for core) in order to buy said unit(core in the example) for that army you want to add, and yea I wouldnt mind makeing the points less or anything but I wanted rares to be harder to get than special and core to be the cheapest of all, also if you want a supple line idea say so many turns per territory it is away from the city(since each army can only move 1 territory a turn...which I forgot to mention in my rules need to add that)
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 3:31 pm

100 gold: Tavern, Barracks, Specials encampment.
300 gold: all others?

Not too sure about the wizards tower. Or make it 100 gold item in place of the tavern for a hero or lord. Otherwise someone will have to buy a tavern and a wizards tower, looks expensive to me. Although at 100 gold spending 200 gold total (100 tavern + 100 wizards tower) doesn't sound so bad. If the goal is to restrict magic some, which isn't a bad thing.

If you want the rares to be that much harder require to have one type of encampment for each unit of these in any army. A one encampment for each rare unit anywhere on the map deal.
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 3:39 pm

Ok I like your ideas for points Ill redo the points for 100 gold for the wizard tower and such and 300 for ther others would put restriction on rares enough(since most will require more than just the rare building) you have a good point on the wizard tower, I added it more as a speration than as a resritcion but it still adds to the game some(also when the campaign starts I plan on giveing each player there own set or sending them a copy depending on how many people play) keep the ideas comeing please
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PostSubject: Re: Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed   Fantasy campaign- Rules posted- start date needed EmptyFri Mar 14, 2008 8:29 pm

im thinking about starting wood elves but won't have a force together any time soon. but i have a lot of painting experiance and am always looking for a new project so i would love to paint up a map for the campaign. any ideas what area of the warhammer world this campaign will take place? any ideas on a story line? just curious would love to have something to keep me busy.
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