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 Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force

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Kibbles_The_Living_WIP
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PostSubject: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:22 pm

Space Marine 750pts Army.
'Fist of the Omnissiah'
_______________________

Space marine Captain. 115pts

Boltgun, Iorn Halo, Frag, Krak, Bolt Pistol, Power Sword
___

Sterngaurd Vetaran Squad (Retuine) 5 models. 125pts

Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Frag, Krak, Spesial Issue Ammo.
___

Tactical Squad. 90pts

Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Frag and Krak
___

Tactical Squad. 90pts

Bolters, Bolt Pistols, Frag and Krak
___

Razorback. 50pts

Stormbolter, Searchlight, Smoke, Twinlinked Heavy bolters
___

Razorback. 50pts

Stormbolter, Searchlight, Smoke, Twinlinked Heavy bolters
___

Razorback. 50pts

Stormbolter, Searchlight, Smoke, Twinlinked Heavy bolters
___

Predator. 130pts

Smoke, Twin Linked Lascannon, 2 Heavy Bolter Sponsons, Searchlight
___

Techmarine. 50pts

Artificer Armour, Servo arm. Boltgun. Frag, Krak. Blessing of the Omnissiah, Bolster Defences.

Blessing of the Omnissiah: 'Base Contact' with 'Damaged Vehicle', repair in leiu of shooting, if its a 5+, a 'Weapon Destroyed' OR 'Immobilised' result is repaired.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Tactics and Theroy:

An imencely Stable firebase. the only weakness being its tiny units. being 17 space marines strong Sans Tank Crews. the key to unoposed victory is the Range of weponry. taking out all anti tank before laying waste to any infantary that dare come close enough. The Techmarine Keeping the Tank's Mobile and Functional. I recognise its weakness' and thats what makes it strong.

The Insparation behind this was reading a passage in the Codex that said 'Sometimes a chapter will feild its armoury of 20 Predators as a single armoured Taskforce. I REALLY wanted to do that, but i needed to keep it to a small minimum, and 4 tanks in a 750 isn' bad at all now is it XD
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Ricter
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:02 pm

Your captain has 3 weapons, which is not allowed. Otherwise okay.

Are Sternguard allowed to count as a Retinue? I don't see the rules anywhere for that, but I could be missing it.

Your only anti-tank weapon is a single twin-linked lascannon. That's just not going to cut it. You basically roll over and die to the first transport assault squad that hits your lines, because your only countercharge is a Captain. On top of that, you probably can't stop 1, let alone 2, since your single lascannon need 7 turns of firing on average to pop AV 12 ports, even with the twin-linked. (8/9 hits = 4/9 pens = 4/27 destroyed ~7 turns)

You drop 30 points on stormbolters. Cut these and the sponsons from the predator (he's going to be firing that las at heavier targets than the bolters can damage, or be in range of, most of the time) to free up 55 points. Use it to get some las, meltas, whatever, somewhere.
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Mon Jun 15, 2009 11:04 pm

I agree with Ricter. Although the twin-linked lascannon will generally be a bit more effective than he makes it out to be (to effectively neutralize a transport vehicle, you can stun or immobilize it, while for a shooty vehicle you only need shake it), having that as your only anti-tank is not enough.

Ditto on the storm bolters and heavy bolter sponsons - not needed, and just chew up points.

Honestly, the type of army you're going for just isn't that viable as a 750-point list. Tanks cost points, and in a 750 list, those are points you need to spend on vital things like scoring units and hitting power. The same style of list would work much better as a 1750 list, where you could take Land Raiders, Predators and whatever other armored nastiness suits your fancy without crippling your effectiveness.

For a 750 list that remains mechanized, consider:

- Removing the Sternguard, using the points to bump the Tactical Squads to 10 men (so they can pack some firepower like meltas and cheap lascannons), and sticking the Tactical Squads in Rhinos.
- Ditching the Captain and Techmarine and instead going for a Master of the Forge. He can fulfill both roles at once, and is cheaper to boot.

If you do that and keep your Tactical Squads cheap, you might even have enough room for a Whirlwind or a second Predator (autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons) for anti-infantry.
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Kibbles_The_Living_WIP
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:28 am

Okay, i rewrote it x.x;;; thanks so much for the help guys, any more would be apreciated, i think i might be a tad melta heavy. but the heavy bolterws make for anti personel.

Fist of the Omnissiah 750pts:
Re-written

Master of the Forge (IC) 100:
Boltgun, Servo Harness, Frag, Krak, Artificer Armour
-
Servitors (4 Servitors) 105:
Plasma Cannon, Heavy Bolter, 2x Servo arms

Tactical Squad (10 Marines) 170:

Boltguns, Multi Melta.

Tactical Squad (10 Marines) 170:
Boltguns, Missile Launcher

Devastator Squad (5 Marines) 120:
Boltguns, Multi Melta, Heavy Bolter

Razorback 40:
Twin Linked Heavy Bolters

Razorback 40:
Twin Linked Heavy Bolters

745pts Total.

Tactical Squads Bolstered to 10
Captain and Techmarine Combined.
Predator Dropped for Multi Meltas. A Devastator Squad. And some Servitors
Number of tanks dropped to a realistic number.
Simple list. The Harness and 2 servo arm servitors means +3 to the Blessing. (1 or 2 fails)

[u]


Last edited by Kibbles_The_Living_WIP on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ricter
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:41 am

Much better list, only have a few more minor ideas to consider.

You get free weapons on the tactical squads - I think flamers, for making them 10 man. Losing one boltgun for the free template shot if the enemy gets too close is almost always worth it.

I personally don't like Plasma on anything with a save lighter than 3+. Also, did you mean 4 Servitors? You have 4 weapons.

Dropping the Plasma to a Heavy Bolter gives you 15 points, which means you can upgrade the multi-melta tac to a lascannon.

I'd also consider making the devastator squad the same weapon loadout - either double melta, or double heavy bolter.

Other than that, good.


And while it is true what Chethrok says, oftentimes you won't get all of your shots between full cover, cover saves, being stunned yourself, etc etc. Just something to keep in mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:25 pm

My Upgraded List, taking on the advice of the wonderful Richter and Chethrok! thanks both of you. I kinda turned around my Tread Junky Sences. i think next time i do that, it will be a Higher point list. Period. Its been good, and i can finaly put it into practice, since it is gonna be a Planed Vassal game against my freind Theo,

So thanks again, and i made the upgrades Rict ~ Only one flamer, but that can be changed depending on the circumstances. ~ being free an all
__________________________

Fist of the Omnissiah 750pts:
Re-written

Master of the Forge (IC) 100:
Boltgun, Servo Harness, Frag, Krak, Artificer Armour
-
Servitors (4 Servitors) 90:
Multi Melta, Heavy Bolter, 2x Servo arms

Tactical Squad (10 Marines) 180:
Boltguns, Lascannon.

Tactical Squad (10 Marines) 170:
Boltguns, Missile Launcher, Flamer

Devastator Squad (5 Marines) 120:
Boltguns, Heavy Bolter x2

Razorback 40:
Twin Linked Heavy Bolters

Razorback 40:
Twin Linked Heavy Bolters

745pts Total.

Tactical Squads Bolstered to 10
Captain and Techmarine Combined.
Predator Dropped for Multi Meltas. A Devastator Squad. And some Servitors
Number of tanks dropped to a realistic number.
Simple list. The Harness and 2 servo arm servitors means +3 to the Blessing. (1 or 2 fails)
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Chethrok_Bloodfist
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:39 pm

Looks much better!

Just remember one of the cardinal unwritten rules of army building: decide upon a role for each unit, and build that unit to excel at that role, so that the unit isn't wasting any of its potential when it engages a target. For example, your original Predator configuration had a lascannon and heavy bolters - a mix between anti-tank and anti-infantry. If the tank shot at another tank, it would be wasting the heavy bolters, while if it shot at a mob of orks, it would be wasting the lascannon. Thus, that configuration would almost always be wasting potential when shooting. That's called role conflict by some.

That's also the reason why Ricter suggested you make your Devastator heavy weapons identical - having a multi-melta and heavy bolter in the same squad is a role conflict, and means that, once again, each time you shoot you're wasting some potential.

The reason I'm mentioning this is because we've been giving suggestions based on this principle without actually stating it. It often seems wise to prepare a unit for every opponent - with a mix of weapons, a unit can theoretically take on all comers. In practice, however, this leads to a waste of firepower every turn, resulting in lower overall effectiveness. Better to have some units specifically geared toward anti-tank, and others for anti-infantry.

You've mostly eliminated this problem from your list, but watch out for the MotF and his unit of Servitors. If the Master is moving about fixing vehicles, that means his Servitors can't fire their heavy weapons. That's role conflict - I'd suggest deciding whether you want a stationary unit of gun Servitors or whether you just want a small retinue to boost the MotF's repair abilities. If you want the latter, perhaps you could buff the Devastators with the points you'd have to spare.
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:56 pm

While you already changed your build.....one thing to remember is that you can buy two heavy weapons for your 5 man sternguard unit.

I often have bought 2 missle launchers for the unit at 5 pts each. At 135 pts you get 5, 2 attack models, 2 long range threats, and still have special ammo. Then the remaing 3 can take combi weapons (meltas/flamers/Plasma) for 5 pts each. I like 2 combi flamers you can have a rounded out 5 man unit that can fulfill a lot of roles on the battle field.

I find this pretty useful in a small AP game where you need a little of everthing but you are forced to make some choices.

A Devastator squad w/ 2 ML would cost 120 pts but you lose the 2 attacks and special ammo and can only buy the combi weapon for the sarge.

Run them w/ Pedro Kantor (a bit steep for 750pt) and they can be a scoring unit for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:00 pm

Chethrok_Bloodfist wrote:
Looks much better!

Just remember one of the cardinal unwritten rules of army building: decide upon a role for each unit, and build that unit to excel at that role, so that the unit isn't wasting any of its potential when it engages a target. For example, your original Predator configuration had a lascannon and heavy bolters - a mix between anti-tank and anti-infantry. If the tank shot at another tank, it would be wasting the heavy bolters, while if it shot at a mob of orks, it would be wasting the lascannon. Thus, that configuration would almost always be wasting potential when shooting. That's called role conflict by some.

Here this should help get your point across.

For the record, the link I am about to give you should be considered nonnegotiable for every time you make a army. Bloodfist hit it right on the head but this article explains it better for newer people. Also don't worry that its an article about guard, its universal trust me.

http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Tactics&action=display&thread=6314
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Kibbles_The_Living_WIP
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:12 am

archite666 wrote:
Chethrok_Bloodfist wrote:
Looks much better!

Just remember one of the cardinal unwritten rules of army building: decide upon a role for each unit, and build that unit to excel at that role, so that the unit isn't wasting any of its potential when it engages a target. For example, your original Predator configuration had a lascannon and heavy bolters - a mix between anti-tank and anti-infantry. If the tank shot at another tank, it would be wasting the heavy bolters, while if it shot at a mob of orks, it would be wasting the lascannon. Thus, that configuration would almost always be wasting potential when shooting. That's called role conflict by some.

Here this should help get your point across.

For the record, the link I am about to give you should be considered nonnegotiable for every time you make a army. Bloodfist hit it right on the head but this article explains it better for newer people. Also don't worry that its an article about guard, its universal trust me.

http://commissar.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Tactics&action=display&thread=6314

He has a way with words, Get the point across quite nicley, and thanks ^-^ for all the help, much better list at my disposal now. ill tell you how it comes along, my Game with Theo is due ~

And, if im ging for a Large Army, i want to ask, would you sugest 1 Predator be anti Infantary, and The other Two Destructors?, or the other way around if i was going to feild a Taskforce of three.
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:19 pm

Yeah, I like that article.

With regard to the Predators, it depends on what the rest of your army looks like. Personally, I stay away from the Annihilator, because I think it's too expensive for what it does and it's not tough enough to weather the shooting that normally comes its way. But if you're running three Predators as your Heavy Support, you're going to need to split up between Destructor and Annihilator variants.
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PostSubject: Re: Fist of the Omnissiah - 750pts Space Marine Force   Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:28 pm

I was thinking of making the army around the Space marine rule of, lightning strikes. I was going to have Transport troops, and have assalut speacialist weapons, Rhino's, Razorrbacks, Supported by the Preds, i REALLY think that Vindicators are much better for offencive tactics. so im on the verge of switching that idea to a Vindicator assault. Preds are more like Devastators, Long Range.
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