1500 point Kasrkin list

Well its been some time since I've posted here, real life has a way of doing that. Anyway I have been tossing around alternate guard ideas since my balloon muscled catachans make me want to cry when ever I go to paint one (I did get over 1500 points of them for around a hundred bucks... so I really shouldnt complain). Anyways I came up with this Kasrkin list, enjoy!

Ursakar Creed - 125

Command Squad - Iron Discpline, Power Sword, CCW & Laspistols - 50

2 Lascannon Support Teams - 110x2

2 Heavy Bolter Support Teams - 80x2

4 Sentinels - Lascannons - 55x4

3 Basilisks - Indirect Fire - 125x3

5 Kasrkin Squads - 5 troopers, 2x Plasma 70x5 (All count as Troops)

So I understand my manpower is going to be tight for a guard force but there is a lot of punch packed into it. 10 plasmaguns, 6 Heavy Bolters, 10 Lascannons, and 3 Earthshakers going off on what should most likely be the first turn (Ursakar allows me to reroll who goes first) could be quite a sight plus I can actually move my troop types for once. Oh and if you are wondering how they all can be troops three are from the grenadiers option and the last two are technically taken as =I= allies, which most likely won't be represented fluff wise since I am imagining this as the first company of the 8th Cadians, though I guess the Internal Guard recruiting from the best company of one of the best regiments could be a good excuse.

That reroll for first turn becomes less useful in 10 days, as it will probably only let you reroll your attempt to get a 6 and "steal the initiative"

In 5th the roll for deployment pretty much dictates first turn.

Other than that, it is interesting, but it seems very fragile. Sentinels explode really easily.

Sorry if I am not up to date but how do they determine who goes first in 5th? I can give up Ursakar, freeing some points up for more troopers.

I would make sure at least a few of those storm trooper squads ride in chimeras too. Other wise you are going to be very slow coming across the board (and limiting your fire power as you do so).

good to see you back!

Well if I drop Ursakar Creed that frees up enough points for a chimera (barely). Now in my experience the chimera is a decent light tank but a terrible transport. 10 armor on the sides?! That basically makes it a rhino at nearly double the base points not to mention 25 points of non essential but mandatory crap it has to have on top. Now I havent played with them too much but I just don't like the idea of paying more for the transport than the unit it is carrying. Now I understand objective grabbing and that sort but in the games I've played it seems guardsmen (and stormies are glorified guardsmen) have no reason being within 18" of any enemy units that it can't be certain it can rapid fire to death that turn. My usual strategy is to slog the main infantry up the line slowly while the big guns pummel everything then skirt what remains of the infantry to the objective in the last turn or two.

That's my experience though and the reason I come here is for advice from those that have treaded places I have not. What is it about the chimera I am missing? I've heard of people using them essentially as light tanks and not bothering too much with putting the men inside. Fair enough, but I think the 10 side armor would be an issue for this use once more. I've also heard stories of people playing mechanized guard that actually have the squads hop in and out but that just seems like wishful thinking to me. Sure historically and on a larger scale the mobility would be advantageous but it seems to me this use would result in a lot of very expensive but very exploded transports and hence dead guardsmen since their armor is largely paper mache. In a game where it is nothing for a skimmer (eldar, space marine, or tau) to come in and drop even the lightest heavy weapons fire on my said chimeras and destroy it doesnt seem the wisest of routes unless just done for flavor.

Looks cool, sounds cool, should be cool but all in all I think the scale of the game is too small for it to reach its true potential. Besides any infantry unit that is actually riding in their transport at the point of combat that 40k represnts is nigh insane, even with today's bradleys and even in the days of the kampfvagens true mechanized/motorized infantry operate like dragoons aka they get off their metal war horse before they fight since the mobility it offers is a strategic advantage, not a tactical one. My differences aside I would love to know how to use these successfully but I do have my reservations.

Side Note : Anyone else notice that the guard have one of the best armed transports in the game that can carry 12 men while the Space Marines have a largely expendable bare bones transport. Seems to me the space marines could use the fire support of the chimera and the extra space while the guard isnt good enough for their pricey (at least for a guard player) transport. Seems the Adepta needs to set up a vehicle swap.

I think they make good transports provided you can use the terrain to your advantage, showing front armor whenever possible and hiding that delicate side armor. Launching smoke when you need to cover open ground and so on. Having at least 2 squads that can get around to where you need them could be a really nice thing to have.

Using them as mobile LOS blockers works really well too, and on the rare chance you can use them to plug a whole blocking the enemy advance they are really nice. In 5th they will be even more valuable (no longer entangling men when they blow and so on).

I witnessed a few mech guard players (mostly chimeras) at the last tournament I was at. I didn't get to play them though, anyone with any insight on playing against those guys (I believe they ranked pretty decently).

Well if I drop Ursakar I have three options as I see it:

1) get a chimera and then beef all the guard squads up one man for a hair more durability

2) get one more storm trooper squad and add an extra man to each squad

3) or get one more storm trooper squad and then get sharp shooters for the heavy weapon teams

I'd do a few things to this list:

- Drop the Sentinels. They're quite fragile, and mounting lascannons puts a lot of points into a delicate unit.

- In place of the Sentinels, get a pair of Chimeras for two Storm Trooper squads, and replace their plasma guns with meltaguns. These squads will fill the tankbuster role that your Sentinels did before, and have the added antipersonnel capabilities of the hellguns and Chimeras. You should have enough points left over to give a few Sergeants melta bombs as an extra precaution.

- Sharpshooters doctrine is invaluable for heavy weapons squads, I'd suggest that.

- Indirect Fire for all three Basilisks probably isn't required - there probably won't be enough terrain to hide all three behind anyways, especially with the new LOS rules. That frees up more points for your Sharpshooters.

- Keep Ursarkar - he's awesome, and with him you don't need an expensive Command HQ.