6th Edition rules what ya think

So the book has been out today so what do you like or not like about the new rules?

new wound mechanics are going to take a bit of getting used to.

It's heavy. Getting a chuckle at the influence of Fantasy in it.

Allot of good changes. Changes to Rapid Fire, Heavy Vehicles, Preferred Enemy, Transports, Snap Shots, all of those exellent stuff.

Still scratching my head over the logic behind Allies. At least they didn't have Blood Angels and Tryanids be BFF.

Not so sure about close combat weapons getting AP values. The Kroot armor save is now completely pointless. Shotguns and grenade launchers are practically junk.

Overall unless there's a monster lurking in the closet the new rules set are an improvement. In all previous editions I would have said Fantasy had a better book, this may turn that opinion around.

I personally love the new rules and enjoy the return to 2nd ish... edition and like the similarities to fantasy!

A smart return to 2nd. Not seeing the possible first turn alpha that some armies could do.

Come to think of it wasn't just transports that were fixed/improved. Ever since 3rd it's been a slow road to recovery for the vehicle rules. This layout looks right. Looking forward to seeing/hearing how it shakes out in game play.

Aside Nick's five railgun 1850 tourney Tau army really can glance someone to death now. Hull points might just be the ticket to one of the games oddest problems.

Im hoping to get in a new game this week! then I'll see if all these new rules are as awesome as I think they are.

I can see people putting more resources into fast attack and other spots than vehicles. I think with the hull points like they are, Broadsides would be it for me.....Troops are more effective now and with Tau able to have allies, well.....just need to allie up with someone that can dish out some melee punishment and there are plenty of options now.

Tau are going to be one of those "Partner" armies until they get the new Dex....."IF" they ever get it. The update FAQ really didn't do crap for me.

The new rules suck ya back in there CJ?

CJ wrote:

I can see people putting more resources into fast attack and other spots than vehicles.

Haven't thought much about this, but if ALL vehicles get 3 hull points, those 35 point spammable ork buggies are going to be very difficult for the other team to deal with, instead of getting turned to wrecks in short order.

Ork Buggies have 2 Hull Points... so yea better but not great...
Battlewagons have 4 Hull Points!!!

not sucked in.....just an observation is all. Between what everyone is saying and seeing the FAQ.

Right now....just cna't get interested in a game that just went to $300-$350 to put together to $500-$600 to play in tourny settings.

in other words lack of new Tau codex...lol

Look on the bright side CJ, the last Tau codex was in 4th edition... they are bound to get around to it before 7th.

While as a whole I like Vehicle rule changes a few serious problems are looming. The 'tracked' IG tanks and other races non-fast skimmers have been badly nerfed. The fire Ordnance with snap-shots downgrade, combat speed and one-weapon-firing have both really sucked out the useability. A dynamic game has been one of GW's rebuilding goals since the tragically static 3rd edition. Why they improved it for everything else while rolling a few types backwards is just stupid. Throw in mobile metla bomb units and/or armorbane (both changes in general I like) make some vehicles overpriced point sinks.

I'm thinking of boxing up my tanks and just go Vendettas. The new rules set seems to favor flyer-transports allot.

Armies like the Tau and IG are going to require serious effort and planning to play now. CC Allies a must, my inquisition mini's have been dusted off. Chimeras with the outflanking Platoon Officer character may still be useable. They aren't so great as the ablative shield anymore. It's probably better to just field extra cheaply equipped troop choices instead. I feel really bad for the Tau since the Devilfish was already expensive and light on the firepower. If used Hammerheads MUST play a smart tactical range game now.

Meh, time for new codexes.

Still ecstatically happy that glancing-to-death is no longer a joke.

How has the new rules for firing affected the Leman Russ? Does it still get to fire like it has since it has lumbering behemoth? I haven't had a chance to even look at the new rules yet...

Makari wrote:

Ork Buggies have 2 Hull Points... so yea better but not great...
Battlewagons have 4 Hull Points!!!

Not disagreeing, but I haven't seen this anywhere. Is this is the rules? (I haven't bought a copy, waiting for the 2 player boxed set).

@CJ - not sure why the prices have shot up, since the 'dexes are still the same. Also I wouldn't hold my breath for a new 'dex, having waited for a couple of editions for a new ork dex.

As for the changes in the vehicles firing, I think that they're step in the right direction, it was sad that only the LR could fire all of it's weapons if it moved. It also helps orks (which is always a good thing ) Haven't heard either way, but I'm guessing that you still can't split fire, which is unfortunate.

GreenJello wrote:

Makari wrote:

Ork Buggies have 2 Hull Points... so yea better but not great...
Battlewagons have 4 Hull Points!!!

Not disagreeing, but I haven't seen this anywhere. Is this is the rules? (I haven't bought a copy, waiting for the 2 player boxed set).

@CJ - not sure why the prices have shot up, since the 'dexes are still the same. Also I wouldn't hold my breath for a new 'dex, having waited for a couple of editions for a new ork dex

Thus why I'm out......

Sinking my cash into Dropzone Commander when it comes out. I got a UCM Large Force preordered and will be coming to me in just over a month....WAAAAAY to long....

A very short summery of the vehicle changes.

• Overall Vehicles are easier to hit in CC except walkers and flyers actually flying.
  
• All vehicles are easier to blow up. Rail/Melta (bomb) and Hull points. No more comical glancing to death.
  
• Embarking/Disembarking refined, imo the best it has ever been.
  
• Imperial Guard codex still get's Lumbering Behemoth since contradicting special codex rules still beat out the main rules. Except I'm thinking the secondary shot can only be snap-fired. Chimeras can move six inches and fire one weapon. Meanwhile other vehicles get special exceptions. BIG NERF. Makes them both more like point sinks now.
  
• Shift on swift skimmers from special hitting rules to a jink save (an effort that has simplified the game). Major improvement.
  
• Mounted plasma weapons are now dangerous to said vehicles.

The entire thing leaves me feeling slightly discombobulated. As a whole the changes are great. For some reason they come down hard on a few vehicles (which happen to be Lemun Russes, Chimera, Defilsh, Hamemrheads). Which GW can fix with more special rules in future codexes.... hurray. Until then it just means working around the issue.

How did the rules hurt the lemn russ?

Hull Points with some exceptions.

2: Light walkers and light skimmers
3: Most everything under the sun.
4: Heaviest of the heavies, monolith, etc.

There is an observed formula but nothing official. Necron have two skimmers which seems out of whack.

Makari wrote:

How did the rules hurt the lemn russ?

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but when Ordinance fires everything else becomes snap-shots. My general position on the vehicle changes is all needed to be easier to blow up, which they did perfectly. The nerfing of the damage output however is wrong. The anti-vehicle hull mounted lascannon (and everything else) a big point sink. It's almost as if they are trying to force them to sit still to shoot everything with sixes to hit. The exact opposite of the dynamic game flow.

Just speculating here but GW might be trying to push people into buying more infantry/etc units.

PS I can totally see the Battlewagon having 4 hull points. Not from armor but because shots that blow through are less likely to hit anything important inside the massive target.

The hull points are listed at the back of the rulebook. Also did you see the faq abd errata is out for 6th ed?

CJ wrote:

Sinking my cash into Dropzone Commander when it comes out. I got a UCM Large Force preordered and will be coming to me in just over a month....WAAAAAY to long....

10mm... not a bad scale at all. Nice.

Before I would ever jump in a new game I'd double check the expected price. Then look over the rules once to see if there were any pitfalls. CAV had a problem with certain flying units that ended up being an exploit. Sadly I didn't even notice it until it was used at a tournament. lol

So, again, I haven't read the rules, but is there a specific spot where it states that the other weapons are snap fire for the lumbering behemoth? I just looked at the FAQ for IG, and it doesn't mention it anywhere. From some other forums I just looked at, it varies between the LR being able to fire the main cannon and one weapon at normal BS, and the others at snap fire, or it can fire all weapons at normal BS, and it ignores snap fire. If they changed the Lumbering Behemoth rules, then I would say that they were snap fire, but if the rules for Lumbering Behemoth are the same, that the snap fire doesn't apply to them. It seems the snap fire rule is to bring other tanks up to the same level as LB, except their extra weapons snap fire. If they didn't want them to be different, then they would do away with LB, which the FAQ does not specify. This will definitely have to be a rulebook FAQ, I think.

My apologies for not being clear. In the 6th Ed book when a vehicle ordinance is fired all other weapons fired can only be done as snap-shots. Page 71.

Lumbering Behemoth (from the IG Codex) needs to be updated for this edition. The new rules really nerfed it good.

So with 6th Ed and IG Codex the Lemun Rus has two max firing solutions.
A: Move six inches, fire ordinance normally, pick one hull weapon hitting on 6s.
B: Stay still (pivoting does not count), fire ordinance normally, fire all hull weapons hitting on 6s.
My goof for being negative. The Lemun Rus can move and fire everything as snap shots. Still assimulating the rules.

A side note a Lemun Rus varrient with a non-ord could move, fire the turret, fire one hull weapon normally, then the rest as snap shots.

So technicality LB is still an advantage, at least on paper.

An interesting side note the Rus variants that don't have ordinance in the turret (like exterminator) could move six inches and fire up to two weapons normally.

Having read through the rules finally, one thing really sticks out to me:
Terrain rules, which I feel have been sadly lacking in every ed after 2nd. This one really packs them in, and also allows you to pay to bring stuff to the fight. My poor orks will never have to fight again on the barren rock of Parkingloto 7, facing unending withering fire.

Yes, they also added in the mysterious terrain rules which seem to get so much hate, but frankly, I like them, they're very cool in a beer n pretzels wargame.

They've simplified and streamlined the rules for ruins, added rules for intact buildings, and incorporated all of it with the various infantry types. Very cool, and encouraging play in something more than just the usual hill, forest, random pile of crap.

Oh, and the ability to go "hull down" on a hill's ridgeline is very neat, makes hills a bit more useful than they used to be.

I also like the addition of the leader bonus rules. Once again a bit random, but everybody gets a crack, and it feels like your leader is more than just a big bully. (Okay, so that's in character for orks )

6th edition is more like Fantasy, which makes it more awesome, therefore I enjoy it!