AP1 Weapons in 5th Ed

With the new 5th ed rule for AP1 weapons getting +1 on the damage table instead of always penetrate, we should take some time to look at the effects of this. Many of the AP1 weapons in 4th had other special rules like 2D6 armor penetration at close range, and often did not benefit much from the bonus to penetration. However the old penetration table had a 50% chance of destruction which is now reduced to 33%. With an AP1 weapon this 50% chance of destruction returns. Basically this makes an AP1 weapon just about as good as it used to be. But, non AP1 weapons are now much worse off especially the Str 7 and 8 ones. Before a plasma gun could be a moderate anti tank threat, with a missile launcher a solid one. Now plasma can only destroy a vehicle with AV12 or lower, and that requires a hit (67%) a 6 to pen (17%) and a 5+ (33%) for a total of a 3.7% chance versus a 7.4% chance in 4th Ed. And now a missile launcher has the same chance against the front of an AV13 tank. (the missiles rarely get to shoot at side armor due to their lack of mobility) The lascannon is still a viable option due to its higher strength, but the days when massed fire from las and krak would take out a land raider appear to be over. Now the only reliable way is to get some melta weapons next to one.

Yes sir, the Sisters Of Battle Exorcist Tank is the biggest winner.

That is really unnerving

Yup, LR's finally become the beasts they always should have been come 5th Ed.

I'm glad I have 3

John: Nice MathHammer

Does this meen that the three raider list is destined to replace the grav tanks in power gaming? Seriously With three raiders filled with your favorite deathwing Would kill heavy weapons faster than the heavy weapons could shoot back, and the terminators could rush out and countercharge anything remotely melta

It might, although it is slower, more expensive and still easier to destroy. I think it will mean a lot more melta guns in squads and attack bikes with multi-meltas. The melta or equivalent still has a pretty good chance at destroying a land raider, as it should be.

Yeah, I don't see people running 3 LR lists... it will be too expensive still.

Quote :

still easier to destroy

Is it really though? With skimmers mostly being at BEST AV 12 and now only getting a 5+ cover save for moving fast (and still costing a decent amount).

Plus with glances being -2 on the damage table (so at best an immobilized).

I dunno, a hard one to math hammer as there are a lot of factors involved.

I meant that a 5th ed land raider will be easier to destroy than the current holo-falcons. In 5th the Falcons will pop like pimples.

Ah ok gotcha.

All I know is that I am replacing all my plasma's with Fusion Blastes..

In order to take out tanks? The railgun is still a very good option for Tau in terms of destroying vehicles. The huge range combined with Str 10 is pretty nice. I expect to see more broadsides. CJ, I wouldn't rip off all those plasma guns, cause they are still pretty nice at shredding infantry armor and have a much better range.

don be hatin on mah falcons!

Falcons will still be a good unit, but no where near as amazing as they currently are. The roll two dice choose the lowest will still be in play, but now that they can be penetrated they have a realistic chance of being destroyed. They will also be slower than they are now so they won't be able to run away/park right next to you anymore. That and they can't capture objectives. With objectives being the new victory condition, and only troops able to capture them, this means that the 3 holo-falcon, harlequin list will have a hard time winning games. They were just too good before, now they can die, at which point you will lose your 200 pt transport.

P.S. Some pimples are still a pain to pop

let's see...12 suits with ap1 weapons....that's a squad a round

I'm also running 6 Pirahna's with fusion blasters

as for your request for Broadsides? I have 3 ready...as well as a Hammerhead

Those only have a 12 inch range though. If you have to chase your opponent down too much you'll end up getting assaulted. Turn one you definitely won't be able to use them, and if you take the first turn, maybe not on turn two either. I'm not saying don't use them, just maybe mix it up a little. Also, what are your troops? With 6 pirhanas and 12 suits you then have 2 min squads of fire warriors? If rumors come to pass, those will be your only units that can capture objectives. You could nearly wipe the board of your opponent and lose if they can kill your troop squads.

yeah, fusion blasters are terrible on suits CJ, let the piranhas play with those and let your suits stay back like they want to.

oh gawd...I plan on it....why would I take away 30'' range plasma for a 12'' ap1 weapon....Plasma is just as good at a ap3 shot weapon