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 Regarding special models in close combat...

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PostSubject: Regarding special models in close combat...   Thu May 21, 2009 4:16 pm

Ok so I know I'm gonna sound like a total noob but I haven't looked at 5th edition assault rules since I left Ohio.

So for my guard army, I can have a 10 man squad with a power fist and I still pick to allocate the wounds around him right? Essentially hiding him within the bulk of the squad?

I ask this because someone said they thought that had changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Thu May 21, 2009 4:33 pm

you can not pick out a basic guy.. Even a vet sarge with a power fist.. he can not be picked out. Indipendant chars can be picked out though because they are counted as another units in assault
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Thu May 21, 2009 10:43 pm

altahara wrote:
you can not pick out a basic guy.. Even a vet sarge with a power fist.. he can not be picked out. Indipendant chars can be picked out though because they are counted as another units in assault

Excellent!
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Thu May 21, 2009 11:07 pm

It is actually all relative to how many wounds the unit takes. You must allocate one wound on each model in the unit.

Ex...if you take 8 wounds on a 10 man unit he will be safe because you can allocate the wounds on the regular guardsman. If you took 11 wounds you would have to allocate at least one wound on him before the leftovers would wrap around to the regular guys again.

Try if answering a question explain it properly so we can get away from people getting half of a rule or a incomplete explanation. It cause more problems in the long run. If you dont have the time to or want to type a full explanation refer them to a page so that they can read it for themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 5:14 am

Chad wrote:
It is actually all relative to how many wounds the unit takes. You must allocate one wound on each model in the unit.

Ex...if you take 8 wounds on a 10 man unit he will be safe because you can allocate the wounds on the regular guardsman. If you took 11 wounds you would have to allocate at least one wound on him before the leftovers would wrap around to the regular guys again.

Try if answering a question explain it properly so we can get away from people getting half of a rule or a incomplete explanation. It cause more problems in the long run. If you dont have the time to or want to type a full explanation refer them to a page so that they can read it for themselves.

Well I understood what he ment, of course he will get wounded in that situation. Thats sorta basic game mechanics. The only reason I posted was because my friend seemed so insistant and after rereading the 5th edition assault chapter I couldnt find what he was talking about...

I believe he was under the influence that vet sarges were independant characters.
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 7:50 am

actually,chad, his question was "Can you pick him out" And NO you can not pick an individual model out of a squad. no matter how many wounds a unit takes you can not pick a model out.

Now, yes, you are right.. If a ten man squad takes ten hits.. then yes the pfist will have to take one.. and if you want to get more in depth.. since you did not completely and thoroughly answer it..

lets say you have a 10 man squad.. One pfist.. 7 bolters.. a missile launcher.. and a melta gun.. you take 14 wounds on this squad.. including 2 power weapon wounds.. you then allocate One normal save on the pfist, one normal save on each of the special weapons.. then the other normal saves, which is 9, on the basic guys... then the power weapon wounds on regular guys..

You then roll for each of the special guys one at a time.. hopefully saving each of them.. then you roll all 9 of the basic wounds on the bolter guys.. lets say you fail 7 of them.. bad luck.. plus the 2 power weapon wounds.. means the basic bolter guys have to take 9 Wounds.. since there are only 7 of them.. then it means the extra 2 are wasted wounds.. At the end of this, assuming you pass all 3 of the special guys, you would end up with a squad consisting of a power fist vet sarge, a missile launcher, and a meltagun marine.

Chad.. lets be a little more in depth in our explanations of questions that were not asked k? thanks.


Last edited by altahara on Fri May 22, 2009 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixed the math issue... cant have a 10 man squad with 11 men.. beh)
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 8:01 am

altahara wrote:
actually,chad, his question was "Can you pick him out" And NO you can not pick an individual model out of a squad. no matter how many wounds a unit takes you can not pick a model out.

Now, yes, you are right.. If a ten man squad takes ten hits.. then yes the pfist will have to take one.. and if you want to get more in depth.. since you did not completely and thoroughly answer it..

lets say you have a 10 man squad.. One pfist.. 8 bolters.. a missile launcher.. and a melta gun.. you take 14 wounds on this squad.. including 2 power weapon wounds.. you then allocate One normal save on the pfist, one normal save on each of the special weapons.. then the other normal saves, which is 9, on the basic guys... then the power weapon wounds on regular guys..

You then roll for each of the special guys one at a time.. hopefully saving each of them.. then you roll all 9 of the basic wounds on the bolter guys.. lets say you fail 7 of them.. bad luck.. plus the 2 power weapon wounds.. means the basic bolter guys have to take 9 Wounds.. since there are only 7 of them.. then it means the extra 2 are wasted wounds.. At the end of this, assuming you pass all 3 of the special guys, you would end up with a squad consisting of a power fist vet sarge, a missile launcher, and a meltagun marine.

Chad.. lets be a little more in depth in our explanations of questions that were not asked k? thanks.

Interesting... I get what your trying to say though your numbers don't add up to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 8:08 am

the numbers? Ok you take a total of 14 wounds.. 2 of the power weapons.. That leaves 12 savable wounds.. you start with the basic bolter guys.. put 7 on them.. then one on the sarge one on the missile and one on the melta.. for a total of 10 wounds distributed so far.. You put the 2 'over wrap' wounds on bolter guys and the two power weapon wounds on them as well..

Since the bolter guys are differently armed no matter how many you fail you can only kill 7 of them.

saw what you meant...
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 8:58 am

All of this becomes even more fun (ie. confusing) when you get to units that have multiple wound models. Hell, I still haven't quite figured thsoe rules out yet when it comes to taking wounds on my Nobz. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 9:12 am

It just works the same way. Let's pretend you have 5 nob bikers that are locked in assault with my TH/SS termies. My termies score 8 hits. You must:

FIRST-- Allocate 1 wound to each model.

THEN -- The remaining three models need to be allocated to the models in the same order

SO..... If you start your wounds with a regular nob and the 5th wound is allocated to your sarge (or whatever it is called in orkdom), your sarge wouldn't incur another wound.

IN VISUAL TERMS---

First 5 wounds:

NOB A - wound
NOB B - wound
NOB C - wound
NOB D - wound
BOSS - wound

Last 3 wounds:

NOB A - wound
NOB B - wound
NOB C - wound

Now, you would get to chose which nobs you start with, so if you wanted to protect a heavy weapon, that would be with NOB D, saving it from two wounds. Strictly speaking, when you start with NOB A, you need to start the second round of wound allocation with NOB A.

I don't know if that helps explain it at all, but hopefully it does.

But then again, there are models with special rules that allow them to decide where the wounds go......
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 5:02 pm

it CAN get horrendously ... annoying... i wont say confusing.. but it can be annoying.. cause lets say thjere are multiple units fighting multiple units and indipendant characters... etc etc etc...

Best bet is to read the section multiple times.. play it then re read the section..
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 5:52 pm

The multi wound unit thing is pretty crazy.

I try to see it this way if it helps anyone:

When you choose who will take which saves, you only have to put 1 wound on each guy.

Then after you've rolled the dice, you have to add the failed saves together to remove whole models wherever you can.

You can only exchange failed saves between alike models.

I think this is a more concise way of saying the same thing the rulebook says.
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PostSubject: Re: Regarding special models in close combat...   Fri May 22, 2009 6:49 pm

The Mike Leon wrote:
The multi wound unit thing is pretty crazy.

I try to see it this way if it helps anyone:

When you choose who will take which saves, you only have to put 1 wound on each guy.

Then after you've rolled the dice, you have to add the failed saves together to remove whole models wherever you can.

You can only exchange failed saves between alike models.

I think this is a more concise way of saying the same thing the rulebook says.

So essentially, you can fail more armor saves than you have guys and still come out with some people alive? since the extra wounds were allocated to models that died anyway?
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