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 Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors

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Matt
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PostSubject: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:28 am

From BoLS

Quote :
Shooting
-Blast weapons don't roll to hit, they just scatter. They now operate like template weapons in that any model touched by the blast is hit. No more "roll 4+ for partial" stuff. A unit firing multiple blast weapons (a SM Dev squad being the example) fires like a multiple barrage unit would in 4th edition. Scatter once, then lay the blasts off of the original template. These two things might make up for the lack of a to-hit roll. You don't need to center the hole over someone when you place it before determining scatter.

-You can shoot over other squads if you can see over them because of elevation, etc. You can always shoot at vehicles or monstrous creatures over other squads.

-Line of Sight: It's units that block LoS, so you shouldn't worry about spending 45 minutes drawing LOS from each individual trooper to each individual target. You draw LOS from the eyes of the model. Area terrain gives cover saves. There's an entire chapter on ruined buildings and how they affect line of sight (like a mini Cities of Death). I honestly don't remember if 6" of terrain blocks sight or not.

-After shooting and wounding, you can choose to become pinned. You get a +1 to cover save (or a 6+ if you're in the open). It's the "get down!" rule.

- Flamers: You now determine wounds for all template weapons firing from a squad before you take saves or remove casualties.

-Gets Hot! is back to the 3rd ed version. So that Ork character doesn't have to worry about rolling 3s on his plasma gun.

Assault
-Assaulting in cover: If you assault someone in cover, and you don't have grenades, you now become initiative 1 (instead of them becoming init 10). This works a lot better when more than two units are in combat.

-If you are charged while broken, you make another fall back move immediately. If you don't get away (i.e., they can still reach you), you're destroyed. If you do get away, you get away.

-Preferred Enemy now allows you to reroll all misses, instead of hitting on a 3+.

Vehicles
-No shooting of defensive weapons if you move full speed.

-Smoke launchers are a 5+ cover save.

-Vehicles can now get up to a 3+ cover save, depending on what they're hiding behind.

-No re-roll of wounding against transported infantry no matter how far you moved.

-Fire all weapons if you stay still (except Ordnance, it's got special rules). Fast vehicles can fire everything if they move up to 6". If you move, you can fire 1 plus defensive weapons. Fast vehicles can move up to 12" and fire 1 plus defensive. If you move more than 6", you only fire defensive (I think you can still fire defensive weapons here, but I'm not 100% on that).

-Fast vehicles can move up to 18" (their max speed now) and only fire defensive.

-Vehicles can only fire at one target. I did not see any special rules for sponsons firing at multiple targets.

-Vehicle damage chart: It's about halfway between the glancing and penetrating charts of today (1-2 is the can't shoot/move thing, 3 is weapon, 4 is immobilized, 5-6 destroyed/annihilated). Glance is a -2. If you are glanced, your vehicle can at most be immobilized.

-Transports: If your transport is destroyed, passengers now take a S:4 hit, saves allowed (instead of a 4+). If an open-topped transport is destroyed, it's a S:3 hit because its easier to disembark.

Miscellaneous
-Still saw nothing on 6" plus of area terrain blocking line of sight. You CAN declare certain types of terrain as LoS blocking -- it just has to be done before the game. You also decide what is difficult, what is dangerous, and what is impassable. Certain things can be difficult for one type of model and not difficult for another. So tank traps might be dangerous terrain for vehicles, but count as clear terrain for infantry. A river might be impassable for infantry, but dangerous for vehicles. You just have to decide before you play. I like this, as it gives more power to the players.

-Force weapons now just inflict instant death instead of that weird pseudo-instant death.

-You can still only take one save per guy.

-Yes, allocate wounds before making saves. This will probably encourage larger squads (goodbye, 6 man las-plas).

-Bikes all now get a 3+ cover save for their turbo-boost. So the psy-cannon thing is out the window.

-A unit with Scouts that is inside a vehicle confers that ability to the vehicle. Let the Pathfinders and Possessed Marines rule!

-Fearless REALLY sucks now. There's no limit to the number of wounds you can take from being outnumbered. 20 to 1? That's 20 armor saves.

-As usual folks, Caveat emptor...

Once more, this raftload of rumors points to a 5th Edition that seems to be more than a little "tune up" of 4th. We are seeing real change here, that promises to make the game more free-wheeling and realign the roles of infantry vs vehicles. We are seeing many, many examples of new rules that seem targeted directly at some of the "no brainer" units and tactics in the game right now.

Gah, now I'm reading these instead of writing red blok army lists/ DA army lists for this weekend.

I guess the LOS thing right Smile

"-Fast vehicles can move up to 18" (their max speed now) and only fire defensive." - kind of cool, but what vehicles do we even care to do this with now that everything def is str 4 ?

"-Force weapons now just inflict instant death instead of that weird pseudo-instant death." - Nooooooo! At least big nids will be screwed with the new troops scoring rules Smile

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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:52 am

What is the 3rd edition gets hot rule?
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:59 am

Yeah, please tell. I really can't remember and my 3rd book is in cincy!

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Preter
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:22 pm

In third it was simply if you rolled a one to hit with a plasma weapon you had to make an armor save or die. I guess the only difference is it no 1 or 2's to get burnt on rapid fire, though I am unsure of the ork reference the guy made with an orc getting hot on a three. As a guard player I love it since I can now rapid fire my plasma guns and not instantly take the poor operator for dead. Oh and vehicles still negate getting hot in third.
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Matt
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:25 pm

Ok yeah that is it, thanks. Not a huge difference, still... nice to know.

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FrostWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:17 pm

It will make plasma guns a lot more worth the risk of takeing. Since if you move you are in rapid fire range if you fire the plasma guns by only failing on a 1 it means you can still miss and not overheat
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:22 pm

Yup, although it's not like every marine player worth his salt leaves home without them as is. This will just make them better Smile

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JMarv
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:07 pm

I believe they did get a points cost upgrade to 15pts in the latest codecies though
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:10 pm

they went from 10 to 20 i believe. Or was it 10-15? OR 15-20? Haha.

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Nathan
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:13 pm

10-15. In fact, all plasma upgrades (except on Dreads which get them "free" (for 20 more points), and Devastators which actually went down from 35-20(or 25)).
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:49 pm

That's because Plasma Cannons are pretty poor in game terms.

ok, so I got my filthy mits on a copy of pre-release 5th Ed rulebook. I'm going to go through it when i get a chance... will be back with details.

One other big change I just read, is that area terrain can be shot through as normal now, but will convey the cover save to anything targeted through or in it. Models within area terrain can shoot out as normal, but if they are deeper than 2" in the area terrain, their target receives the save from the cover.

In this copy, rending against non vehicle units is an auto wound at AP2. Different than we had heard. Against vehicles, an AP roll of 6 gives an extra D3.

Alright, done for tonight. Be back tomorrow night with more.

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Mad Dok grotsnik
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PostSubject: Re: Even MORE 5th Ed Rumors   Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:41 pm

Preter wrote:
In third it was simply if you rolled a one to hit with a plasma weapon you had to make an armor save or die. I guess the only difference is it no 1 or 2's to get burnt on rapid fire, though I am unsure of the ork reference the guy made with an orc getting hot on a three. As a guard player I love it since I can now rapid fire my plasma guns and not instantly take the poor operator for dead. Oh and vehicles still negate getting hot in third.

If you take a mega blasta with more the Dakka and Shootier upgrades the ork takes a wound for every 1-3. It's an assault 3 weapon.
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