On page 66 of the rulebook, under Fire Points, it says that passengers cannot fire out of a transport at all if it moves at cruising speed.

altahara says a Dark Eldar raider can move 12" and then the passengers can all shoot out of it.

His reasoning is that fast vehicles count 12" movement as combat speed.

I say no.

Page 70 of the rulebook (the rules for fast vehicles) says no such thing. In fact, it lists seperate conditions for fast vehicles moving at combat, cruising and flat out speeds.

What say you CAG?

really wish i'd have brought my rulebook out here with me

Where are you?

I agree with mike the fire point rule states ...

(pg66), "Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and may not fire at all if the vehicle moved at Cruising speed that turn".

Pretty strait forward.

Now according to mike, altahara says that fast vehicles count 12" movement as combat speed. Just because two things work similar does not mean they are the same thing. No where in the "Fast Vehicle Firing" section (pg70) does the words "count as" exist. It says that the vehicle can fire all weapons at combat speed and one weapon at cruising speed. If you use "counts as" that means all the rule would apply from one to the other and in this case they don't.

The "Fire Point" rule is pretty clear and there is nothing in the "Transport, Fast Vehicle Firing, or the Fire Point" sections to say different.

So long story short, the answer should be...No you can't fire out of a vehicle that moves more than 6"

But I am sure there is some god forsaken GW rule out there that makes absolutely no sense to explain this away like all the other rules we have talked about this week. Thank goodness Games Workshop has a lock on the market because their sheer stupidity would sink the company.

"PRAISE BE TO GW MARKETING DEPARTMENT !!!!" - <3 All the peole who work for Games Workshop

I'm pretty sure that they can, and yes I don't know why GW puts rules in the rulle book that half the codei (spelling?) over-ride anyway.

So "pretty sure" that's like "counts as" or is there more conclusive evidence for your theory.

There is no way.

It says on page 70 that fast vehicles moving at Combat speed can fire all of their weapons.

If altahara is right and 12" is Combat speed, then that means a land speeder tornado or typhoon can fire all of its weapons after moving 12". So can any eldar tank. A Baal Predator can do it too.

All of you eldar and space marine players know that is not the case.

I Posted the question on dakka, hopefully somebody thee knows.

MIKE I HAVE A RULING FROM GW!!

SHEESH..

Quote:

Hello, As squad embarked on an open-topped, Fast Vehicle may fire all weapons if it is stationary, may fire all non-heavy weapons if it moves at Combat Speed(12” or less) and may fire nothing if it moves faster than Combat speed. The Dark Eldar Destructor says roll for each target hit, so you would roll for each squad/unit. Thanks! John Spencer Customer Service Specialist Please do not delete previous email threads as this will help us serve you better! Games Workshop Customer Service 6711 Baymeadow Drive Suite A Glen Burnie MD 21060 Games Workshop Customer Service is open: Monday through Friday 9:00 Am to 7:00 PM EST Contact info: 1-888-248-2335

see the part where HE says

Quote:

may fire all non-heavy weapons if it moves at Combat Speed(12” or less)

i do believe that proves my point.. I am terribly sorry if you do not like this ruling.. but that comes straight from them.. If you would like me to foreward you the email so you can see that i have not tampered with it in any way please feel free to send me your email address..

{/end rant}

It says it all on Page 70. Under open topped vehicles. "All passengers in an open topped vehicles may fire..." then under fast vehicles firing on the same page "fast moving vehicles may fire a single weapon and all defensive weapons just like other types of vehicles moving at combat speed".

i.e.- A fast open topped vehicle moving at cruising speed may fire a single weapon and all defensive weapons (str 4 or less). So yes, a raider"s passengers may fire when at cruising speed.

the ruling specifies that 12" or less is combat speed... whatever it is called... open topped fast transports can have their passengers fire at 12".. this also means ORKS can fire from their trukks... at 13" if its red..

6-12" is cruising speed. But when a fast moving vehicle/transport moves at this speed, it can fire as if it's moving at combat speed.

yes i know what it states.. the ruling from gw says combat speed (12" or less) etc etc.. and were talking about the passengers... not the vehicle itself... so..

my raiders will move 12" every game i play and the passengers will fire.. until i see a FAQ on GWs website..

Unfortunatel Altahara it only says the vehicle it does not state that the passangers inside can actually fire. As it stands the rule from the book has covered the passengers shooting from inside the vehicle.

Ugh thanks GW, I'm sure that they intended for them to move 12" and fire, but it is just implied and not quite stated. So by raw they can't. Yes it's silly that they can get out and shoot, then assault, the tank can shoot, yet if they stay in the tank they get lazy. Ifyou can't agree then the rule book states to roll off. Calling gw SHOULD give you the right answer, but they are known for giving different answers with every call. It's just shody writing by GW that ends up with something that makes little sense. To this day I still have to fight over Lictor deployment at turnies. Thanks a bunch, GW.

I wouldn't rely on a "flunky" at customer service for rules questions. From experience, they have been proven to be incorrect.

I sent GW an email yesterday about this. I probably won't hear back until Monday.

There is clearly a typo in the "ruling" as it states 12" is Combat speed. 12" is Cruising speed. the main rulebook makes this very clear on page 57.

Ok, The Dark Eldar Raider is a Fast Open Topped Transport. Yes I know its also a skimmer and may have other rules but I think these are the only ones important in this discussion.
I will reference the following pages for this summary.
Page 57 for the speeds and movement.
Page 66 under “Fire Points” third paragraph.
“Models firing from a vehicle count as moving if the vehicle moves, and MAY NOT FIRE AT ALL if the vehicle moved a Cruising speed.
Page 70 under “Open Topped Transport Vehicles” Sentence one and two. “Open topped vehicles do not have specific fire points. Instead, all passengers in an open topped vehicle may fire, measuring range and line of sight from the hull of the vehicle.
Page 70 under “Moving Fast Vehicles” sentences one & two. Fast vehicles are capable of a third level of speed, called ‘flat out’. A fast vehicle going flat out moves more than 12” and up to 18”.
Page 70 under “Fast Transport Vehicles”. “Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it hs moved (or is going to move) flat our in that Movement phase.”
Page 67 first bullet point last sentence. “ After Disembarking, these models may shoot (counting as moving), but may not assault.

So at combat Speed ( 0” & up to 6”)
The Raider Can fire its weapon.
The Troops can All fire their weapons measuring distance from the hull.

At Cruising Speed (6” & up to 12”)
The Raider Can fire its weapon.
The Troops Can not fire. However if they disembark they may shoot their weapons (P67). Per the rules for open topped vehicles they may also choose to assault (P70)

At Flat out (12” & up to 18” or 24” on a road)
The Raider Can NOT fire its weapon.
The Troops Can Not fire their weapons embark or disembark from the vehicle this turn.

Hope this helps.
Carl

Well put, Carl. I agree with you!